Black women should abandon Black churches and focus more on themselves, their needs and those of their children than those of Black men or a religion which Black men use to castigate and control an entire race of women.Single Black Females in Church Black females have long been considered the backbone of the Black community and the cornerstone of their families and churches. But what is the real price Black women have paid to wear this crown of fool's gold? An examination of any congregation of the average Black church shows that single Black females fill the pews. Results of a recent study "African Americans and Religion" by the PEW Research Center's Forum on Religion and Public Life found that "African Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole." Almost 90% of Black Americans express "absolutely certain belief in God" compared to just over 70% of the total U.S. population. Two other important statistics gleaned from this survey: (1) 80% of Black Americans report that religion is "very important" in their lives as compared to 57% of the general U.S. population; and (2) 55% of Black Americans report that they "interpret scripture literally" as compared to 32% of the general U.S. population. The PEW study also reported that "Men are significantly more likely than women to claim no religious affiliation. Nearly one-in-five men say they have no formal religious affiliation, compared with roughly 13% of women." The survey shows a distinct correlation between religion and social attitudes amongst African Americans. "African Americans who are more religiously observant (as defined by frequency of worship service attendance and the importance of religion in their lives), are more likely to oppose abortion and homosexuality, and more likely to report higher levels of conservative ideology." (continued on page 2 below)
We find it more important to be in church than anyone else, yet are the least likely to have a father in the house.
I agree with NaronMccormick why would I marry a woman who listens to two men her husband who want her just to love him instead the Man standing in front of folks trying to tell her this how your family should be. And most of the women are still dating having sex without marriage 'but hiding it. I don't think the black women of the church should look for approval from the pastor who she picks as a husband or she never get's married to no one. It's called control & brainwashing. Because men infront of the church stands in way if he can't control the husband too. So these pastors brainwash the women better stay by your self. And there's no need for loving another man "because I am here Love Me" Black women starts looking as "this man infront of church as a GOD.
I completely agree with the author. Someone needs to ask why is it that blacks are married in lower numbers and many married couples have poor quality relationships. The literalist view that the black church takes of the scriptures sets up the perfect breeding ground for marriage relationships that are adversarial instead of symbiotic. The man thinks that he has a door mat and often quickly makes the sister wish that she was single again. Some men believe that they own their wives. It is not uncommon for men with such a mind set to resort to violence or coercion to get what they feel is rightfully theirs'. I have seen such scenarios over the past several years. The church needs to understand that it is part of the problem. Sisters need to also open their minds to possible interracial marriage . Unfortunately, some people lack the capacity to have a successful happy marriage.
@sonofcharles1 Has it ever occurred to you that some of these Black men are downlow, bisexual and opportunistic? And just exactly how would interracial relationships or marriage help to resolve this problem? It's a global issue surrounding patriarchy. If you think Black men have poor quality relationships, spend a year in Pakistan, India or better yet live with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Get rid of patriarchy and religion will follow.
Spiritual But Not Religious. This is a choice I made after being raised for my entire childhood inside a black baptist church.
This is about the black church as it relates to black men and black women. On that subject I'll say that if only I could ever find a black woman who was also a spiritual person without having to have it validated by some church,
I'd Try Real Hard to pursue a relationship.
You know what, as much as I wanna go in regarding this entire article I cant afford to burn my precious oil. Yet I will say this. Nine times out of ten the reason why we stereotype an individual is because it's easier for us to put someone in a box instead of getting to the root of It all. The view doesn't reflect all black women within or part of the church. Yet I believe It does reflect her personal experience that may have been negative within the church. In result leaving a bitter, evil conscious and a venomous mind and tongue which has been used to poison and infect the fragile and pure, untainted womens mind that desire to Ither know or simply hear and obey the word of God; as well as grow up in thier salvation. There is nothing fruitful regarding her statements towards the church and black woman. We have to be slow to speak and quick to hear. And when we have the opportunity to talk we must administer grace to the hearer. We must use our tongue to edify and not tare down. We must deal with the matters of the heart for out of It are the Issues of life.
@MagnoliaWillis I agree with most of what you wrote. The black church for all of its problems is still the most progressive and positive black-owned institution in the black community. Oh how we forget that the civil rights movement was born out of the black church. Deborah needs to go see the movie "Selma", she forgets to whom she owes so much. Not only that, but her criticism would mean more if she was in the black church herself, instead of throwing rocks at it from the outside. Hell, her words would mean more if SHE was in the black community herself physically, as opposed to some damn near lily-white Livermore, CA. where she resides. Her pro-black credentials are lacking for anyone to take her words but so seriously. I guess she can make the argument that her show and thus her life's work has been about uplifting black relationships, so I guess I have to retract that statement partially. As much I would like to agree with you that "there is nothing fruitful regarding her statements towards the church and black woman", I must disagree because there is always something fruitful that comes out of self-examination. Some of the things she writes about the black church are true. There are black preachers who don't live the lives they recommend others do, and prey on the single women in their congregations. Her point of view is needed. We shouldn't blindly be like " Oh, everything the preacher says and does is right". We just need to calmly and thoughtfully consider Deborah's criticism and keep them in the proper perspective.
@blackcaesar @MagnoliaWillis Deborrah doesn't need to go see a fictional movie to make any sort of determinations about real life. Where I might choose to live NOW has no bearing on the fact that I grew up and lived around black folks for decades. I have had enough of niggerish behavior and hell yeah I moved away from yall.
I was born and will die a black woman. Because I choose to remove my teenaged daughter from the cat calling street harassment, the groping, lewd language and violence of black males doesn't make me any less black. I don't want my child to be subjected to the disgusting pedophilic behavior of older black men in Oakland so hell yeah I moved her the hell away from the likes of you. Believe me I would tear you a new one and make you wish you were at home with your mommy any time I got ready. But I'm not trying to go to prison behind some knucklehead.
Lastly this article is five years old. You all are super late. However, looking at Creflo, Eddie and all the rest of these clowns with their violent, money hoarding, pedophilic behavior, my words about black pastors PREYING on the congregation ring truer than ever.
The black Church is tells the women of the certain church don't date him" He's going to leave you" The paster's of wants all the women to be under him.And not a husband and if she do pick a guy the Paster if he don't like the man he tells her lies in order to to control her. What is the matter with Black women in the Church they began looking the Paster as he was a God.
@Iseenthechanges this could be why much of the 'praise & worship" 'could' be for him instead of HIM
While I do agree with many of the things that Denorah spoke about today on the radio regards to her book and the state of the "black church". I do not agree that someone who hasn't been to church since she was seven years old is qualified to dictate the position of that shepard as it pertains to how that flock is led. No way! The dynamic of the church has changed tremendously over the years.
I truly enjoyed speaking with her but, that didn't sit very well with me. When you make the statement......"Im all the God I need"......I can't help but be reminded of the word saying that "Thou shall have no other Gods before Him"
@bnak Who cares what you think? The church hasn't changed one iota in 500 bazillion years. The church is a business, and its goal is to have control over its "customers", keep them coming back for more, and to make a profit. Just like any other business. Nothing about the church has changed since I went last. If that were the case then we wouldn't have sex scandals and pilferage, cheating and lying, and all the other horrific things that go on in black churches. If anything with the advent of the Mega Church, things have gotten WORSE.
500 years of Christian and the Bible interference and falsehood has proven to be a failed policy. In the case of Islam, 1500 years. We are a Gullible people. I am embarrassed.
I go to church just to hear a different interpretation of the bible than what I might have. Other than that, I don't socialize with the people there or hang out with them. I arrive after everyone else, and leave before everyone else so I don't have to talk to them. I don't think church is "necessary" for spiritual development, but again, I like to hear a different interpretation.
I guess I would agree with the article if I attended church in order to find a man. However, I don't see church as a "dating field." It's a place where I can worship God with like minded people. If anyone attends church with any other agenda, I can almost guarantee, they are going to leave frustrated--because that is NOT why church exists. It's clear you are only familiar with what I have called "fringe-church", because you have just enough information about church to sound like you know what you are talking about. However, I dare say that if you really understood a relationship with God, this would not have been a viable article to write anyway.
@RenitaDixon You are one of those that thinks church and God are above investigation and reproach. I disagree. Only someone who is NOT indoctrinated in religion would have the courage and understanding of manipulation and games of control to write such an article.
Lastly, if the article were just about YOU, then your perspective and singular focus on yourself and what you do and how you view things and why you go to church would make sense. But we're not talking about YOU. We're talking about millions of black women that DO seek love and a husband that is "equally yoked" within their religion, which means within their church. Not sure why you think such a goal is improper. I think it makes total sense. Like if you want someone that enjoys sports, you probably go to sporting events and date those guys. If you want someone that reads, bookstores and book readings/signings/discussions and book clubs would be where you go and date those guys.
@RenitaDixon A relationship with God is a personal one, as it is with any living creator. It does not necessarily require a church, a building or other people. I was raised in the church, raised my children in the church but no longer attend or have a need in my elder years for the church or the type of social structure it provides. I agree with the author's observations. Only one who, like myself has spent a considerable amount of time studying and observing black religiosity could make such a candid and profound analysis of how our churches have limited the progress of the black community, especially as it relates to single and married women in the membership. In one of his most passionate sermons called "A Knock at Midnight", Dr. Martin Luther King raises several other questions about the social failure of the black church.
@Deborrah @RenitaDixon I am a Christian woman and I agree with Deborrah. Renita Dixon you have to ask yourself why every other faith ,non faith or religion emphasises on getting married or finding love. Even in the Bible God said its not good to be alone. What is going on in the churches is not healthy nor is it of God. It is not fair what these leaders have done brainwashing women having them under mind control. The pastors should be encouraging women of marriageble age to get out there look their best and find love.
@Deborrah @RenitaDixon What you say is true I met a nice lady and we seem to get along good. Until I went to the Church she belong to. This so-call man of God only preach about he's going to leave you" He didn't preach the bible at all just what his thoughts for that day was.I could see he was a fake/pimp/ just good with his words and that church had over 600-700 people following him not the word of god.
So church is just a social club for christians? How is that different from any other social club? In other words, what does church offer me that I can't find anywhere else or in any other religion?
Just Wait Until That Homosexual Demon That Take Root In The Black Community...It's Going To Do More Damage Than Heroin, Crack And All The Rest Of Those Hard Drugs Combined! It's Going To WIPE Us OUT!!! I'm Telling You, The Black Church Has Failed Our Community Miserbly...Remember Sodum & Gomorrah!
@naej358 No proof of the existence of Saddam & Gomorrah but their is proof of child molestation which leads to sexual confusion, which leads to homosexuality. Young Black boys are highly targeted these days.
Are you serious or were you being sarcastic. The death of black folk will be a further breakdown of the family. The greatest threat to black folk is heterosexual men who want to sleep around and get married and have kids with no intention of being loving, nurturing and responsible. I have seen a lot of marriages break up but I never seen a family man run off to be with another man. Leave the gay folk alone and focus on the real issues effecting us.
@naej358 You right the Devil has put it in nice package and called it Gay' but they know it wrong'
I have travelled the country extensively(all the lower 48 state) and I will tell all of the black people, especially blackwomen, that there are No Shortage of blackmen. There seems to be some concerted effort by the social scientist in this country to release this "propaganda" while encouraging interracial marriage. Every knows that there has always been more women than men. It may just be a better idea to put on our thinking caps and look a little deeper at those who are saying this and what their true motives are!
Clue: Present indications say that there's a Shortage of Whitemen!
Factoid: There are more blackmen in the Western Hemisphere than whitemen.
Your numbers are wrong. At this juncture there are more men than women in the under 30 age group. So all those young women looking for husbands will have their pick. It's only amongst the baby boomer generation that there are more women than men primarily because of the Vietnam war draft. To me that is why there is an increase in genetic problems in children -- the healthy prime males got shipped off to war and died, and the rejects stayed and fathered children, passing their defective genes on.
@gralan02 You have to consider however that black men are often DISCOURAGED from marrying anyone and you will often hear black men in their 30's and 40's with children who will tell you they will never marry.
@Deborrah Not sure that you've been around long enough to make such an
assessment. I recall that most of the blackmen who went Vietnam were poor
@Deborrah Women under 30 are also more likely to date interracially than women over 50, giving them more options.
TD Jakes openly admitted on national television that the core group that the church needs to focus on is blackwomen in terms of "FILLING UP SEATS". This is a "Business Concept" born by the Federal Government reducing aid to the churches. This is not an attack.The CHURCH is running itself like a business and this is the way it is to be evaluated.
1)The Church wants their "Customers"(blackwomen) isolated to keep their coffers filled. 2) Many blackmen have fallen away from the church so THAT IS NOT WHERE YOU GOING TO FIND ELIGIBLE BLACKMEN.
BLACKWOMEN:The church is isolated you from the blackman in an attempt to try to force the blackman in to coming back to the church. Where are the blackmen? THERE EVERY WHERE YOU WOULD NOT EXPECT THEM TO BE! I guarantee they will be receptive towards you if you do not mention anything about the "CHURCH".
Well my heart is heavy for the young girls going in this the year 2013A.D. They have to deal with so much on the streets. What are they learning about being independant & self-supportive? Are they being etified to strive in academics, put themselves & their education at the top of their long term goal list? Are they being encouraged to have ambition & being told they can shoot for the stars & achieve their dreams with hard work & dedication? I sure hope so.
I don't know if I agree with everything that Deborah says, but I applaud her for having the chutzpah to air an opinion that's so counter to what the average African American believes. The church certainly doesn't help women find mates and waiting for God to send you a mate really might leave you single, lonely and rapidly moving towards retirement!! However I think this is a complex issue with a variety of factors impacting our choice of suitable (employed, respectful of women, faithful, etc) mates.
Some of us men are very spiritual beings…We [just] are NOT Christians! I do not believe that so-called Christian have a monopoly on GOD. Yes, the church is keeping our women single. Example: Every pastor I know is warning sisters NOT to date non-Christians. Entire sermons are centered around this fact. The pastors talk about being evenly yoked! If a brother has a job, educated and responsible, it will not make a different with some sisters if you are not a Christian. Read Acts 11: 26. Christianity is not our true way. Act 11: 26 prove it. Jesus instructed his disciples “Go not unto the way of the Gentiles!” Where did Paul (Saul) go? Even Barnabas parted ways with Saul because he knew that Saul began to get away from the teaching of the Elders. Paul traveled from North Africa (Israel) to southern Europe (Antioch). Everything I say I can PROVE with the Old Testament and New Testament. Why do you think pastors stay in the New Testament?... Because, the Old Testament, is talking about African Kings and Queens!
I must be a loser or in the closet man because I love taking my straight a** to church every Sunday! I need to hear the Word and I am not about to pretend I don't like going. The Lord took a long time to get me coming back to church and now that I'm there and I see the benefit, I ain't never leaving :)! Then again, my woman doesn't care; she loves her some church too. I do see the players in the church and the in the closet types. But, religion is a personal experience and I don't go to find a woman (even though they are beautiful women and I can't blame a brotha for wanting to mack). God gave me my woman so I'm forever thankful cause he knew I needed someone to watch over my crazy behind and she's time enough for me. So, I'm still going every Sunday; I'm the one in the shirt and tie greeting the first time friends :).
I have mixed feelings about this article because I've been to a number of different churches. When I became a Christian, I spent a lot of time really reading and studying the bible for myself. So, as I went to different churches, I was able to weed out lots of things and ideas that weren't biblical. So, I never really got stuck in the prosperity gospel trap, or the feeling that I had to be in church every waking moment, or this line that we draw in our lives between the sacred and secular. While there are places I don't frequent because I don't enjoy it, and things that I don't do because the bible says it is wrong, there's a lot that I do that is not church related. I agree whole heartedly about black men and church. There is a dearth of eligible black men there. I've met some really good black men at church but they are quickly snapped up. I don't go to church for men, nor do I spend a bunch of time with singles groups. The man I'm dating now is a black man who goes to church. He is one of the exceptions, but it wasn't something I planned. Women rejected him a lot because he is really short. But then again, so am I so its not a problem. A friend introduced us and it worked out. But that's the first time in 15 years. Many fell into the categories you mentioned. When I was looking for a man, I didn't go the club, etc because I knew that the man I wanted probably wouldn't be there. But I did volunteer, go to meet ups, looked online, went to the gym .... Plenty of men are all around, it just takes breaking from the routine. Men tend to be more active, and christian men might not be in church 24 x 7 but during the week he will probably work out, go to work, and will probably be looking for a tangible way to do some good in the workd. I looked outside of my race also. White and other men are often quite interested in black women. It isn't the majority, but even if it is only 5 or 10 percent, that's millions of people in the U.S. alone, not to mention other countries. I've been really blessed that the churches I go to are quite different than what you've described. For example, the church I am in now is teaching us to be leaders. We are assessing our strengths and weaknesses and our leadership styles. In other churches I've learned about finances and investing, entrepreneurship, and more in addition to being fed spiritually. Ive been taught how to dig into the scriptures for myself using several different methods. There is sexism in the church for sure, but I've also seen tons of female leaders who have been positive role models of women in leadership. I've heard about players but they don't tend to gravitate to me. I'm not too impressed by stuff considering I have my own stuff! I do appreciate my Christian brothers who do go to church. Some do have problems but that doesn't mean they will stay that way. Christ heals us and gives us the power to make it through, one step at a time.
I don't agree with Deborah Cooper on much. But I have experienced this first hand with black women. What's ironic is how Deborah always speaks out on women's issues yet she is attacked by so many black women here. It's poetic in a way. That's because black women hate being faced with the harsh realities. My white male counterparts argue with their girlfriends about a lot of things. But I've never heard them mention anything about religion. The black church is B-S. It is for individuals with slave minds. And if we stopped ignoring the history of Christianity, we would know this. The root of it is Catholicism. They fabricated so much just to get people to come to church.
Black women expect black men to behave in a contradictory way. It's not in a real man's nature to submit to doctrines and pastors. It makes him docile and easily controlled. God doesn't hear you better in church and God doesn't need your money. And to fellowship doesn't mean going to church. Black women should stop using a doctrine that was beat into African Americans as a reference. I don't give a damn what the Bible says because I'm not Christian. And most black women don't because they ignore the parts they don't like. Deborah, yes! Pimp preachers and vague, pseudo-spiritual teachings keep black women delusional and single. They may not be lonely. Most guys will have sex with an attractive woman. But he won't commit and be faithful if you try to force him to be something he isn't.
Here is a link to a video interview with women that were preyed upon by deacons, pastors and ministers in black churches.
My latest conversation: Pastor Sexual Abuse in Black Churches Must Not be Defended by Black Women
After today Mr. Wayne Jones comments will go directly into the trash and he is hereby banned from the site. Coming onto a privately owned website and threatening the owner with libel, slander and physical harm in written form is over the top and indicates someone that isn't wrapped too tight. I've taken screen shots of his threatening comments and the system recorded his IP address. So if anything should happen that requires legal intervention, I have the tools to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. This is a highly emotionally charged and controversial issue that people tend to feel very strongly about one way or the other. Those that have personal experience with being victimized in black churches have a very difficult time being believed or even heard by those that insist the Pastor is the right hand man of God. Discussing a topic and having a difference of opinion is fine, that is what we do here and on all social media sites on the internet. However, when someone cannot tolerate the idea that others have a different opinion, and resorts to threats of harm to make their point, their behavior crosses every barrier imaginable and they must be blocked from having the opportunity to make any further comments on this site in accordance with our Posting Regulations.Thank you everyone for your patience and future cooperation in this endeavor..
I've thought this to myself for quite sometime. If we look at female/male interaction at its most granular level we see men striving to be the alphas of their domain. Spending Sunday and Wednesday evenings listing to another man dictate how you are to run your household/life, etc...is not the average mans idea of achieving success, dominance, peace, etc....I can positively state that the average mans (black, white, asian) least concern is what some slick hair pimp has to say about how he conducts his life. Black women (not all, maybe a bit more than half) seem a bit hung up on this. I can't tell you how many times I've fit the profile of a "good man" with exception of my belief (or lack there of). Being atheistic in belief has alienated me from a significant portion of black women. Let your belief be YOUR belief, maintain that intimacy between you and your deity. Stop stifling yourself by making ''god fearing" such a stringent requirement for the ideal partner because I can assure you that this is the last thing that proves a mans worth and capability to protect, provide and love. These traits exist in all of us (to some extent or another). Me personally, I've had much success dating, unfortunately it has been outside of my race where the most success stems from and this disappoints me.
Some of the points mentioned here are painfully true. Especially being able to place the men in church into four categories. Except, I'll add a fifth which is the abuser. I have complete faith in God but I have also grown weary in attending church for many reasons including the ones cited here. The black church has gotten complacent and spends more time putting on airs than dealing with the real issues. That's where my frustration lies. I don't come to church to pretend or be phony. Every sin known to mankind is in the Bible, yet so many topics of discussion are taboo in the church. If we can't be real in church, how will we know how to conduct ourselves in the world and reverse some of the strongholds and generational curses that our culture is plagued with???
So true and on point. We have to know God for ourselves and which direction He desires for us to go. God is everywhere, inside, outside of the church. I tried the religious men of God and 90% are just as messed up as the "Men of the World". Let's get to know God for ourselves.
This article is always timely and relevant. Black women really do need to get their azzes out of the church. Christian women are the most naive and gamed on women on the planet. (Or should I say religious women). They are sitting ducks just because of their mentality. The sooner women get their butts out of the church, the better off they will be. Stop giving their time/energy/money and hard work to these pimping preachers.
What a load of hogwash. The church is not to blame for women (or men for that matter) remaining single or lonely. Whomever wrote this article clearly does not understand the true purpose of the church (regardless of race.) The church is NOT a singles bar. There is one reason and one reason only for attending: worship and spiritual guidance. These attacks on the church are not only rude but ridiculous. If one is having problems finding a mate, they need to take personal responsibility and quit blaming other people and entitites. Besides, this article pretty much purports that there is something inherently wrong with being single when it isn't. Better for the Black woman to be in the church than out barhopping or desperately chasing men. If they are doing it in a church setting then they need to stop it. It's that simple.