Men Are Not Qualified to Lead Women or Relationships

| 08/07/2010 | Comments (25)

I’m tired of men that don’t have their shit together, that lack self-discipline, that have no goals for their lives, are irresponsible and misogynistic in attitude tell me that as MEN, they have the right to lead women… that women must submit to them.

One of the chief things men say, especially Black men, is that Black women won’t “let Black men lead.” That is now and has always been a curious statement to me. How can a mere woman, someone you say has no power at all, STOP you from doing anything… I mean, since you are such a studly man and all?

The real question is if we remove religion from the equation, what is it that makes men feel they must be the leader? And if it is true, as some men say, that men are destructive when left to their own devices and need women to lead them in other directions, then who is the real leader here?

I say that men are not natural leaders, they are natural followers… WOMEN are actually the natural leaders of men, of households, of the world. The only problem is that most Black women have been socialized to believe in Christianity, which tells Black men totally unqualified for leadership in every way but scripture quoting that they are leaders of women. What a bunch of hogwash!

That garbage pissed me off so much that I made my first video and posted it up on You Tube. Your comments are welcome.

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Deborrah

Veteran social researcher, relationship advice columnist, author and radio host. Author of hundreds of articles on American and black culture, gender issues, singles, dating and relationships. Author of "Sucka Free Love!" , "The 24 Types of Suckas to Avoid," "The Black Church - Where Women Pray and Men Pray," and "Why Vegan is the New Black" all available on Amazon.Com. Her unique voice and insightful commentary have delighted fans and riled haters for 20 years. Read her stuff on SurvivingDating.Com and AskHeartBeat.Com.

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  1. Gustavo says:

    I would post an intelligent rebuttal to this, but that would be futile. The modern day Black woman grows more insane & unreasonable by the second.

    • Raz says:

      “I would post an intelligent rebuttal to this, but that would be futile. The modern day Black woman grows more insane & unreasonable by the second.”

      Traditional thinking men like you need to realize that women are waking up. This is 2010 and as women start to take advantage of opportunities denied to her years ago, men are becoming disgruntled at the shift in power. You can’t post an intelligent rebuttal because you have nothing to say. You’ve enjoyed male privilege for so long unquestioned that now your world is topsy turvy now that women are sitting up realizing that a man’s testicles does not give him entitlement to lead when he has done nothing to prove he is a leader in the first place. Men who think like this should go sit down somewhere and kick rocks!

    • Unintelligent people don’t have the skill set to post intelligent rebuttals. Glad you recognized your limitations and didn’t waste my server space with drivel.

    • Danta' says:

      I agree with my man, but I will drop a Rebuttal Women nowadays ain’t qualified to lead relationships either. Both men and women need to work on self before they talk about leading anybody. It’s a lot of dudes that got it together, I ain’t talkin’ about the things: i.e. Money, Car, flash etc. I’m talking about they mind so they focus is right and making good decisions so they can lead a relationship Male. Women can lead a relationship if they leave the drama out, and quit throwing up they bodies as well as accomplishments in a dudes face. Men do it too, and women stay away from those men right? Also in the Bible this true but also in all cultures of the world men are dominant some males in a oppressive culture make us look bad, but what about the men that lead the right way? you ain’t gonna mention them. And also with women it’s a few countries and cultures out there where women are the dominant one they know what they are doing to lead people, or their significant other and don’t throw it up in anyone’s faces. More than I can say for the Strong Intelligent, Black women, or any women that has been americanized.

  2. David H. says:

    Ohhh I was going to go off on you for this article for a second, but I realized how futile that will be.

    This whole generation of men, basically anyone born since the 80’s has been raised mostly by single women. Some of the most misogynistic words written in music history, have been uttered by boys raised by single mothers. Black Boys are dropping out an alarming rate and their mostly inner city kids raised by single mothers. And yes these are the leaders, apparently they need followers to lead properly based on what you’re saying.

    You do know that there are over 2 million single fathers in this country right? I wonder what the statistics say for them. I”m looking, can’t find none, can you help me see how their kids perform in the future. Are they more likely to be depressed, more likely to go to prison, more likely to be pedophiles etc…please help me do the research and let me see what you come up with if you can.

    By the way, if you’re not looking for a man for leadership, why then look for a man period. It’s not that expensive to get semen at a hospital, plus “surprise”, “surprise”, it’s disease free!

    • southernbelle says:

      Blood boiling here.
      To answer your question about why a woman would look for a man if not for leadership I will say for partnership, love, support, encouragement, a soft place to fall, a co-parent (someday), a life long companion, a best friend, a lover, a comforter, and sometimes someone to push and believe in me…basically, the same thing I can offer him. Head out of the sand please.

      The issue of whether or not black men should lead is really irrelevant because they simply don’t. Semen seems to be the extent of the contribution in 72% of lives of black children. Black men feel they have other or better options as a whole and no one has challenged them to think otherwise. Especially, not other black men and certainly not you. “The mom can raise the kid while I live my life.” It is shameful to watch men argue for a position most refuse to take anyway. They don’t want leadership. Leadership is another word for responsibility. They want power and control. People confuse the two so easily. Leadership requires sacrificing your wants and needs for the benefit of others. A person who would risk or lay down his/her life so that others might have more. How many men in our community young or old would do that? The emphasis in the discussion of leadership amongst black men seems to center on access and control of females and special privileges that can be denied to others. I have heard the “women should let men lead” mantra. Yet, this is the very reason for the number of fatherless children. Women who followed men without questioning their motives, believing the snake oil he was selling would work. Perhaps, if we emphasize leadership skills in the group of people who MUST lead anyway, we can prevent so many of our young women falling into traps and ending up single parents while the man is off creating more and blaming her for the outcome of a child he wouldn’t recognize in a lineup.

      Furthermore, the percentage of single fathers pales in comparison to the number of women who are left to parent alone. Especially, amongst blacks. The statistics are devastating. Either way, you ignore some of the most important aspects and differentiations between single mother’s and single fathers. The first of which is the perception of choice. Many (not all) single fathers whether by conviction or love choose or fight to be single parents but often have the option of another parent taking over. The other aspect is economics. Women earn disproportionately less than their male counterparts even with similar qualifications. My brother is a “single” father. My closest friend is a single mother. He earns more with a GED than she does with a master’s. The worst part is she will be taking a pay cut to get a job that better fits her sons special needs. Her ex-husband, whom she put through school, left when he started making money and her son was an infant. He felt he hadn’t had a chance to sow his wild oats. That was five years ago. He makes two times what she does, sees the child once every other year despite living only 45 minutes away and is currently not paying child support despite a mutual agreement to do so without a court order.

      My brother’s ex wife, horrible. Consequence of being molested by multiple male family members and being told to get over it. As horrible as she is my brother was planning to leave his 1, 3, 6 year old kids and run bitches and hos(his words). I told him if he runs hos don’t be surprised when his daughter becomes one. After all she will be looking for her daddy. I asked him how he was going to feel when his daughter became a stripper. My foot met his behind and he became enlightened. We have lived together for the last 5 years and I parented until he grew up, now co-parent with him, and am on my way to live my own life (whew). There was an intellectual and freethinker buried under that stupid misogynistic manure. He is working on a degree in science, a passion he didn’t even know he had, he is going to teach, then hit med school when his youngest is grown, and is going to begin classical voice training. After giving up the dream of becoming a famous rapper, he found out he is an amazing tenor. He is finally a good father, good man, and now my very best friend. His wild children are well behaved, respectful, and the pride and joy of BOTH families. I teach them that being a man doesn’t make you a leader. Your actions do. I know that they will be great husbands and fathers. They want to be teachers, doctors, and engineers not rappers and pimps. Not only do they have someone who keeps her foot in their behind, they have one hell of an example for a father. Now, I can tell my niece to find a man like your daddy. Leadership inspires others to live at a higher level, not tear them down so you can look higher. Before you demand the right to lead, educate yourself on what it means.

    • southernbelle says:

      What?
      To answer your question about why a woman would look for a man if not for leadership I will say for partnership, love, support, encouragement, a soft place to fall, a co-parent (someday), a life long companion, a best friend, a lover, a comforter, and sometimes someone to push and believe in me…basically, the same thing I can offer him. Head out of the sand please. The issue of whether or not black men should lead is really irrelevant because they simply don’t. Semen seems to be the extent of the contribution in 72% of lives of black children. Many black men feel they have other or better options as a whole and no one has challenged them to think otherwise. “The mom can raise the kid while I live my life.” It is shameful to watch men argue for a position most refuse to take anyway. They don’t want leadership. Leadership is another word for responsibility. They want power and control. People confuse the two so easily. Leadership requires sacrificing your wants and needs for the benefit of others. A person who would risk or lay down his/her life so that others might have more. How many men in our community young or old would do that? It is hardwork. The emphasis in the discussion of leadership amongst many black men seems to center on access and control of females and special privileges that can be denied to others. I have heard the women should let men lead mantra. Yet, this is the very reason for the number of fatherless children. Women who followed men without questioning their motives, believing the snake oil he was selling would work. Perhaps, if we emphasize leadership skills in the group of people who MUST lead anyway, we can prevent so many of our young women falling into traps and ending up single parents while the man is off creating more and blaming her for the outcome of a child he couldn’t recognize in a lineup.

      Furthermore, the percentage of single fathers pales in comparison to the number of women who are left to parentalone. You ignore some of the most important aspects and differentiations between single mother’s and single fathers. The first of which is the perception of choice. Many (not all) single fathers whether by conviction or love choose or fight to be single parents but often have the option of another parent taking over. The other aspect is economics. Women earn disproportionately less than their male counterparts even with similar qualifications. My brother is a “single” father as is my closest friend. He earns more than with a GED than she does with a master’s. The worst part is she will be taking a pay cut to get a job that better fits her sons special needs. Her ex-husband, whom she put through school, left when he started making money. He felt he hadn’t had a chance to sow his wild oats. That was five years ago. He makes two times what she does, sees the child once every other year despite living only 45 minutes away and is currently not paying child support despite a mutual agreement to do so without a court order.

      My brothes ex wife, horrible. Consequence of being molested by multiple male family members and being told to get over it. As horrible as she is my brother was planning to leave his 1, 3, 6 year old kids and run bitches and hos(his words). I told him if he runs hos don’t be surprised when his daughter becomes one. After all she will be looking for her daddy. I asked him how he was going to feel when his daughter became a stripper. My foot met his behind and he became enlightened. We have lived together for the last 5 years and I parented until he grew up, now co-parent with him, and am on my way to live my own life (whew). There was an intellectual and freethinker buried under that stupid misogynistic manure. He is working on a degree in science, a passion he didn’t even know he had, he is going to teach, then hit med school when his youngest is grown, and is going to begin classical voice training. After giving up the dream of becoming a famous rapper, he found out he is an amazing tenor. He is finally a good father, good man, and now my very best friend. His wild children are well behaved, respectful, and the pride and joy of BOTH families. I teach them that being a man doesn’t make you a leader. Your actions do. I know that they will be great husbands and fathers. They want to be teachers, doctors, and engineers not rappers and pimps. Not only do they have a loving woman who keeps her foot in their behind, they have one hell of an example for a father. Now, I can tell my niece to find a man like your daddy. Leadership inspires others to live at a higher level, not tear them down so you can look higher. Before you demand the right to lead, educate yourself on what it means. Besides leaders rarely demand, they command.

      • Raz says:

        Excellent comment southernbelle. Thanks for sharing such a wonderful detailed story about what leadership really means. It’s not a word, it is action by doing.

    • Raz says:

      “This whole generation of men, basically anyone born since the 80?s has been raised mostly by single women. “

      David give it a rest. Hold men accountable for the state of single women raising young boys. Men who skip off their parenting responsibilities. If men would stop dropping their sperm inside of women they don’t plan on marrying and becoming a parent with, then we’d have no fatherless boys making misogynistic rap videos. If men would be Daddies and raise their babies instead of leaving the woman to do all the work, while they skip off and don’t even want to pay child support for a baby they made, then we wouldn’t have fatherless boys or girls. Go preach to these men instead of the women. Women don’t look to a man for leadership, they look to a man to do his job, be a parent, take care of his family be responsible. Men like you want to sit on a throne from a distance and have the title of ‘leader’ without putting in the work. I say go kick rocks.

    • Raz says:

      “This whole generation of men, basically anyone born since the 80?s has been raised mostly by single women. “

      David give it a rest. Hold men accountable for the state of single women raising young boys. Men who skip off their parenting responsibilities. If men would stop dropping their sperm inside of women they don’t plan on marrying and becoming a parent with, then we’d have no fatherless boys making misogynistic rap videos. If men would be Daddies and raise their babies instead of leaving the woman to do all the work, while they skip off and don’t even want to pay child support for a baby they made, then we wouldn’t have fatherless boys or girls. Go preach to these men instead of the women. Women don’t look to a man for leadership, they look to a man to do his job, be a parent, take care of his family be responsible. Men like you want to sit on a throne from a distance and have the title of ‘leader’ without putting in the work. I say go kick rocks.

  3. Brooklyn Blu says:

    I think that nature has it set up for women (collectively) to lead the community. But I dont think gender in and of itself is the defining characteristic of leadership. I think leadership should be based on ‘female” energies…cooperation, compassion, sharing, community, nurturance, etc… but I think that both males and females can exhibit natural leadership abilities, as long as it is THOSE traits that are used as the standards.

    It is my belief that in many ancient civilizations, the communities were based on “female” principles, but both males and females lead. I do think that when leadership is placed soley in male hands, societies eventually self destruct. IMO, males NEED female’s to civilize them. If left unchecked, they will eventually destroy themselves, and the women with them.

    I have come to realize that I am a leader in my own life, but I actually prefer a man to lead in a relationship. Yet, Im a feminist. I will NOT let just any man lead. Only the man who’s qualifications supersede mine (in many areas) and who has garnered my ultimate respect and trust. THAT is NOT something most men can do. So a woman like me cannot be “lead’ by any man, simply because he is male. I will only ‘follow” a TRUE ALPHA MALE, who is conscious, convicted, humble and aware.

    If he needs me to “let him be a man”, then he is not the “man” for me.

    The man i am seeing doesnt need me to “let’ him do anything. He is a man…THE man, simply because he is THE MAN.

  4. eLLe85 says:

    THANK YOU FOR THIS DEBORRAH. It needs to be shouted from the mountain tops.

  5. MsSensual says:

    One of the main reasons why the black man and black women cannot get along is that the black man has forgotten or just don’t know our history. Black women in ancient societies have always been leaders. It is in her blood. When the white man read the doctrines and papers of the ancient black man and found out that the men where under the leadership of their women, they erased it all and came up with the king james version of the bible. The black man wants to be like the white man so much and it has lead to the destruction of the black family. The black man will become extinct waiting for the black women to become weak and bow down to him or any orther man. It will never happen for she is born to lead.

  6. Dana says:

    I love the point you made around men saying a woman won’t let him lead. My thing is, what about all those males in his life – are they letting him lead? Does he take issue with these male figures not letting him lead? No, he doesn’t because he knows which males are stronger/smarter/more gifted than he is, and he won’t go up against them (he could, but I don’t think the outcome would be in his favor). A woman though – he thinks she’s weaker in every aspect of life so she should let him lead! Of everyone he has ever met in life, at least she should let him lead? Whatever! Like you said, if he is more qualified in an area to lead – I’ll let you lead. If not, no! Why sink both of our boats!

  7. Jay says:

    Soooooooo, what makes the average woman more qualified to lead a man………than the average black man more qualified to lead a woman? Lol

    • Jay what makes women more qualified is that woman are ALREADY LEADING. Women have experience at it. Men do not. Men want women to give them the keys to the Kingdom, as men have been socialized by religions to believe they are entitled to have them along with dominion over anything female. But the bottom line is that the happiest, most long-term marriages are between couples where the man admits the female is the leader of the household and the relationship, and he goes along with what she wants. I’ve talked to dozens of couples married 25 years or more and EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE HUSANDS said that is how they handle things and that everyone in their household is taken care of. One guy even said “I go out and make the money, and come home and give my check to my wife, then I go sit down and watch tv!” lol! It was cute, but he was just demonstrating how he doesn’t fight the natural order of things and how well it works.

      But see, Black marriages are in a crisis. It is rare to find a Black couple married 25 years these days. Shoot, half of the marriages fail within the first 7 years! And with Black men thinking they need to run everything and demanding that women turn over the reigns to them (even though they have no qualifications or skills to run a household and don’t know the first thing about the emotional connection required to keep everyone in a household happy and satisfied and their marriage working well), Black marriages are failing at a rate of 75%.

      Brothas, the way you want things to be is not working and never has. Be supportive of your wife and children, but stop fighting the way things are supposed to be. You can be right about you leading and be by yourself, or you can be happy with a woman that loves you by your side while you relax on that stuff. You have to pick one.

      • A J says:

        Interesting observation. I don’t argue with you that when a woman is a stronger, more prepared leader, that she give direction to a couple and their goals. However, you happen to be making the same mistake as you stubborn brethren..claiming the right of leadership by gender..hummn? yeah.

        Leadership is not a birthright, for anyone. It is a learned skill, developed over time, and by practice, drill, and rehearsal, and finally by doing. One must understand how to manage resources (what I call the 4 management M’s: Men, Materials, Money, Minutes), reach goals through activities, and develop possibilities.

        Communication is the key to a couple understanding who is going to guide a relationship, how the couple are going to react to outside stimuli and who is going to protect the family in what areas. There is nothing wrong with a man wanting to lead his family, especially if it is the way he was raised, but he must understand that is an earn position and he should communicate that is his intension. If she isn’t convinced that he is positioned to lead her family, or is in some other way not respected for that role, she must communicate that as well, so that he can correct the job he’s doing to both their satisfactions..If she never intends to submit to a man, she just has to communicate that as well. There are plenty of men that will fit into her way of doing things, and the same reigns true for him.

        REMEMBER, SAME PLACE, SAME WAY, SAME TIME. That’s what you’re looking for.

        • Raz says:

          AJ “Leadership is not a birthright, for anyone. It is a learned skill, developed over time, and by practice, drill, and rehearsal, and finally by doing. One must understand how to manage resources (what I call the 4 management M’s: Men, Materials, Money, Minutes), reach goals through activities, and develop possibilities.”

          Excellent point AJ, you just proved with this statement why women are more qualified to lead than men. Women from birth are trained/socialized to manage a household which includes learning and doing the 4 M’s’ you’ve stated. Men don’t get this training and socialization from birth. So by default women through gender roles and socialization, are trained to be leaders. Who do you think runs the home and manages the household resources? It ain’t the men.

          • cd58 says:

            That comment was plain sexist. First who says a woman should rule the home and own the kids. It should be a full partnership and a man’s opinion and wishes respected equally. Too many women today buy in to the crap going around and ruin their relationship trying to be dictators and whining that their husbands will not do whatever they want, however they want like they are in charge.

            Second, based on my experience, in a work environment, the leader is the one who is willing to take getting kicked without crying or going crazy and can sell his/her ideas to others. Running a household for most women is a dictator to children and men who tune out situation and as a consequence they do most the work. The leader has to get people in his/her group to buy in and work hard or they are fired.

          • Raz says:

            cd58 “That comment was plain sexist. First who says a woman should rule the home and own the kids”

            You did cd58. I said: “Women from birth are trained/socialized to manage a household which includes learning and doing the 4 M’s’ you’ve stated.

            You need to go learn to read what you see’ in front of you and interpret that instead of making up something then basing your comment on what you’ve made up and tried to pass off on something I’ve said. Anybody who can’t read what is in front of them and comprehend, certainly lacks the basic fundamental qualities of leadership.

            The rest of what you wrote didn’t make a lick of sense. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, most households are managed and run by women while the men ‘help out’. It should be more equitable, unfortunately it is not. Women ‘wish’ they could sit back and their husbands would take charge but how competent would that man be to make sure every aspect of the household including childcare runs smoothly?

            Men need to shut up and go sit down somewhere and ‘stop whining about women taking charge, when they aren’t rolling back their sleeves and jumping in to put in the same amount of work inside of the home as the woman does. It’s 2010, time for men to step up to the plate! Long past time. Both work outside the home, and both should work inside of the home sharing the chores equitably.

      • David says:

        I agree with you about men having the choice these days of allowing women to lead and rule in the house or simply going it alone and leading themselves. This is the reason that I plan on being a life-long bachelor. The domains of marriage and family are female controlled spheres by law now. Black men are smart to divest from both institutions as they don’t benefit them, and usually end in messy divorces that emasculate men. Real men don’t get married any more, only “yes-men” do. Black men are a the forefront of the men’s movement for the equal rights of aborting their unwanted children psychologically speaking. I mean if women can abort their children physically, then why shouldn’t men be able to abort their unwanted children psychologically. I’m happy that I’m one of the many Black men wise enough to see the writing on the wall and allow willingly women to rule the roost, by themselves.

        • Raz says:

          David: “I agree with you about men having the choice these days of allowing women to lead and rule in the house or simply going it alone and leading themselves”.

          Women surround themselves with a network of support so they don’t go at it ‘by themselves’. What I’ve found is that even when women are married, the man doesn’t do enough to support the woman, merely brings in his paycheck alongside hers. The woman does 95% of the work in the home including childcare, emotional support and running and managing the homes. This is nothing new. Women have been doing this for eons. And even married, they’ve been doing it pretty much ‘by themselves’.

          David: “Black men are smart to divest from both institutions as they don’t benefit them, and usually end in messy divorces that emasculate men

          Black men love to talk about messy divorces that ‘they themselves cause by acting a fool in a marriage, then they want to whine and cry about emasculation. Yeah tell that to ‘Tiger Woods who cheated on his wife, devalued his family all because he was running behind ‘azz’. What about him tearing his family apart. Talk about ‘dat’. Talk about men engaging in behaviors that causes divorce, talk about dat. Oh but you don’t want to address that part, you just want to cry ‘victim.

          David: “ Real men don’t get married any more, only “yes-men” do.”

          Hey it’s 2010 I totally think women shouldn’t get married either. Cooper wrote an article about this:
          “The Cons of Marriage – Why Women Should Not Get Married http://survivingdating.com/?p=1182
          Marriage has long benefitted men more so than women. Back in the day women ‘had’ to get married as a way to leave home. Women couldn’t work in viable jobs so they went from father’s house to husbands house and they were relegated to the role of mother and wife. That was then, this is now. Women don’t have to be restricted in those roles anymore and traditional minded men like you and others are howling like hound dogs because you are losing your influence and power over women. Women should care less about marriage, they were socialized to define their womanhood by men, as being wife and mother. But women are waking up. They can have men as lovers and when/if they get tired of that lover, they can move on to someone else all without the complication of marriage and all the drudgery and responsibility that goes with it.

          David: “Black men are a the forefront of the men’s movement for the equal rights of aborting their unwanted children psychologically speaking”

          Why don’t black men be at the forefront of keeping their dycks in their pants and keeping their sperm to themselves so they don’t even have to worry about aborting a baby psychologically in the first place. And as far as that is concerned, you’re right, black men walk out on their children more than any other race of men so nothing new or admirable about that. Read Cooper’s article “Men That Don’t Take Responsibility For a Pregnancy Are Punk Bitches!” http://survivingdating.com/?p=539. You want to talk about unwanted children, then talk about keeping your sperm to yourself so you don’t make any unwanted children. Be wise enough to have a vasectomy breh especially since you’re talking about psychologically aborting babies and plan on being a life long bachelor.

          • David says:

            Well Raz, your quite right. I should seriously consider having a vasectomy; however, I don’t have sex, so it’s not necessary. I agree with you about black men learning to keep their penises in their pants. It is absolutely awful how so many black men plant their seeds in such a willy-nilly way. I also agree with you about what you wrote regarding black men causing the messy, emasculating divorces in the first place. I don’t agree with you about marriage benefitting men. I don’t even think that being intimately involved with women is rewarding for the most part, strictly from personal observation of other people’s relationships, as I’ve not been involved in one myself. I think black men and women should abstain from sex to a much greater extent than they do. I know that I credit abstaining from sex with what I perceive to be a more peaceful existence than that of most men who are involved in sexual relations with women. Oh yeah, as for that power you were referring to that men are losing over women. I’ve never had any “power” over women, and don’t really want to. As for black men “psychologically aborting their unwanted children”, you can type until your fingers fall off, you will never convince me that it is right for a man to simply have to live with whatever decision a woman makes regarding having a baby, while she can go off and have an abortion. I’m pro-choice, but I’m also for equal rights for men to abort unwanted children. Their is something manly about black men who do not want to have unwanted children that do not cow to the matriarchal legal system and become ATM machines. I’m proud of the black men who stand up for their equal rights to abort their unwanted children. Thank you for your comments. I think self-examination is a critical part of improving oneself, and your comments helped me to do that.

          • Raz says:

            David ” I don’t even think that being intimately involved with women is rewarding for the most part, strictly from personal observation of other people’s relationships, as I’ve not been involved in one myself”

            I don’t allow how other people behave to dictate how I choose to run my personal life. However I see that you do. Since you observe negativity from ‘other people’s relationship, you take that on for yourself and decide you may as well abstain from women and sex because it will be negative for you too. I have to say dude, you sound weird and not like a hetero. male. I have lots of male cousins and I have brothers none of which would give up women based on ‘how someone else’s relationship goes. Typical; if someone jumps off a bridge, that means you have to follow along and jump off too? You don’t have sense enough to learn from their mistake and make up your ‘own mind’ about your own choices?

            ” I think black men and women should abstain from sex to a much greater extent than they do.”

            I think people should ‘date smarter not harder’ when it comes to their personal relationships. Treat their body like the temple it is. People have to ‘earn’ the right to ‘worship’ in the temple’. Now what that means to individuals is up to them to interpret.

            I know that I credit abstaining from sex with what I perceive to be a more peaceful existence than that of most men who are involved in sexual relations with women.

            You don’t know ‘most men’ and you aren’t in their personal lives so you can’t make this statement of what ‘most men’s sexual lives are like with the women they’re with. Just because you abstain doesn’t make it right for others. Just say you decided to be sex free and leave it at that. Don’t state your sexual decision as though it is the way everyone else should choose to live their lives.

            “As for black men “psychologically aborting their unwanted children”, you can type until your fingers fall off, you will never convince me that it is right for a man to simply have to live with whatever decision a woman makes regarding having a baby, while she can go off and have an abortion.”

            Who said I was trying to convince you of anything David? I commented based on what I wanted to share, I don’t care if you’re convinced or not. My point was, fix yourself so you don’t even have to worry about aborting a baby in the first place. Since you’re so adamantly against sex, women and single parenthood, one way to insure you stand by your principles is to get a vasectomy.

            I’m pro-choice, but I’m also for equal rights for men to abort unwanted children.

            I’m pro-choice too, and I’m also for men keeping their sperm to themselves and not making ‘unwanted children‘ in the first place. Men alone are responsible for where they ‘choose‘ to deposit their sperm. If a man has bareback sex with a fertile woman he forfeits his right to decide to do anything. Once his ‘sperm leaves his body and becomes a part of hers he is complicit in his understanding that a baby (whether he wants it or not) could potentially be on the way. If he doesn’t want to make babies, then don’t be having bareback sex with a woman then whining (like you are now) about aborting babies.

            A man has a window of opportunity to prevent his sperm from meeting an egg BEFORE sex regardless of what that woman says. If he chooses to have bareback sex anyway, what he is saying is that he is willing to risk becoming a father. So all of that stuff you’re talking about psychological abortion goes out of the window. He’s chosen to ‘set himself’ up to potentially make a baby and be a father, all because ‘he’ decided to have ‘bareback sex and ejaculate inside of a fertile woman. So now he has to deal with the potential ‘consequences of the choice he made to deposit his sperm inside of a woman’s womb. To prevent unwanted babies, men should only deposit their sperm inside of the woman they have chosen to marry and mother their kids, otherwise quit whining and ‘father’ up.

            Anyway this is not what this topic is about, it’s about men not being qualified to lead so stop trying to turn it into your topic of concern about fathers whining like babies, about the babies they choose to make when they ‘choose to have bareback sex with women.

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