Should a Woman Ever Tell Her New Man About a Past Abortion?
Having an interesting discussion with a gentleman at an afternoon gathering. Don’t ask me HOW we got on the subject of abortions, let’s just start from where we did.
Anyway, his stance was that when a couple gets together, the woman should tell the man all of the things she has done with her body before he came along. “If the woman has had an abortion I think she needs to disclose that. It is better to let your partner know your dirt up front than for him to find out about it later in the relationship. That is fundamental.”
I said only a stupid woman, one of those stuck on trying to ‘be honest’ would tell a man some stupid, very personal mess like that. Men do not need to know anything that happened with a woman’s crotch before he came along. Men cannot handle it. Anything you tell them, they will later use against you trust me. Men don’t really want to KNOW these things, they just want to have ammunition to use against you to judge your worth and value because they are so stuck on what has gone on between your legs.
So then he comes back and says:
“Well I will just say this: What’s done in the dark will come to light. In most women I know even if they try to keep their secrets inside they can’t. You know what I am saying is true. Women who have been sleeping around in the past before tend to have emotional issues and need to express their feelings. It’s better to express them at the beginning then later on, because it will affect the relationship more. If you feel the guy is going to judge you and look down on you, maybe you shouldn’t be with him in the first place.”
He is correct in one sense, there are many weak-minded women with the disease Diarrhea of the Mouth, or what my mother used to call Loose Lips. She’d always say “loose lips sink ships!” When I got older I totally understood what she meant as I saw woman after woman tell a man way too much information and ruin his fantasy of her being a wonderful woman. It was always about something in the past that did not reflect the woman that she is here and now – always some youthful silliness that she grew past and move on from.Yet these women would find some deep seated NEED to speak on it and destroy their relationships in 10 words or less.
Men are disgusted most of the time at the amount of things women tell. Men say to me frequently “women talk too damn much!” What women do is tell all of their personal business to their men, strangers, coworkers, family, alleged friends, and even their parents. Women really need to learn how to shut up.
There are quite a few things that a woman must never discuss with a man – her man or any other male including her own father or brothers. The socialization of males makes them believe themselves entitled to judge and condemn women for their actions in the present as well as 50 years in the past. Why subject yourself to such scrutiny and self-esteem lowering condemnation? Nothing is going to be changed by revealing your secret for yourself, all you are doing is giving someone else something to beat you over the head with. Why would you do that to yourself?
There are times when a woman needs to learn the art of mysteriousness and just plain shut her pie hole. I don’t care how much you love him or how many times he asks you for this information, keep your mouth closed. No woman should EVER tell a man about an abortion in her past. Trust me, there is no mark made on your body, no tag left behind, no way for him to ever know what happened unless you tell him. You should never tell a man anything like that.
Nothing about an orgy you went to, the time you experimented with lesbianism, the time you had a threesome, the time you caught gonorrhea from your boyfriend, the time you had a one-night stand – NOTHING. He should never hear about those things because they weren’t his business. And he certainly doesn’t need to hear about an abortion! Wasn’t his, baby, so he doesn’t need to know.
And if he should be so bold as to ask directly, a woman should lie to his face and say ” No. Never had one. Why would you ask? Have you had one?”
What kind of insecurity is at work to make a man that concerned about what happened with the vjayjay before he came along? Leave it alone dudes. You weren’t up in it, wasn’t yo baby, has nothing to do with you and so you don’t deserve an answer to that question.
That’s my take on it. What’s yours?
Deborrah
Veteran social researcher, relationship advice columnist, author and radio host. Author of hundreds of articles on American and black culture, gender issues, singles, dating and relationships. Author of "Sucka Free Love!" , "The 24 Types of Suckas to Avoid," "The Black Church - Where Women Pray and Men Pray," and "Why Vegan is the New Black" all available on Amazon.Com. Her unique voice and insightful commentary have delighted fans and riled haters for 20 years. Read her stuff on SurvivingDating.Com and AskHeartBeat.Com.
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Category: Women's Issues
@Razzy @Deborrah – I set the agenda when it comes TO MY RELATIONSHIPS not YOU or anybody else, and thats how anyone with a backbone should operate.
When it come to what makes someone promiscuous everyone is different, I think anyone going into the double/tripple digits under a certain age is alot (25). Some men its over twenty, ten, three, five or just one. My father for example wouldn’t even consider a woman to wife up who wasn’t a virgin. If you tried to call him stupid or insecure he’ll just laugh in your face.
And using a comedian as a reference to this is a bit poor. There are tons of forums, youtube vids, askmen articles, blog talk radio, comments that state that they wouldn’t wife up someone who had a promiscuous past, all you have to do is search.
@xDashx @Deborrah
Women and men look for different qualities in a partner…chastity non promiscuous woman’…
How many lovers does a woman have before you judge her to be promiscuous xDashx?”
@xDashx @Deborrah “I have been asked and strangely enough the women asked me first as they are just curious to know about the person they want to spend time with and it builds TRUST,”
You build trust by how you interact and treat your CURRENT partner. A person shows you who they are, they don’t ‘tell you who they are’. Besides any woman who is silly enough to believe what some man tells her about his ex woman is a dumb naive broad. A dude will always tell ‘his side’ of the story and we all know that truth lies on 3 sides, his, hers and what lies between the two sides.’ So a wise woman observes the guy she is dating, carefully observe how he treats her in the here and now. This is how trust is built. Those women asking you about who you knocked boots with before they came along are just as silly as you are. You all sound like silly immature kids playing at dating and really have a lot to learn.
All any adult needs to know about someone’s sexual past is if they are STD free and move on from there.
Even Chris Rock said in ‘bring on the Pain “”Guys, don’t ever ask a woman, how many people she’s slept with. You don’t want to know. Just be glad that you’re fucking her, now.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zywIR_ZFLts (listen at 2:26
@xDashx @Deborrah
OK XDashx, how many women have you slept with, when did you last have sex? Did you marry the woman you’re sleeping with? Why not. If she’s good enough for sex, then she’s good enough to wife up. After all if you’re going to be all judgemental and conservative about a woman’s vjay then you as a man need to do your part and stop contributing to the sexed up single vjays out there and only sleep with the vjay you are married to. So did you marry the last vjay you had?
@xDashx @Deborrah
I am Razzy,, my own person, but seriously who cares if you think I’m someone else. Believe what you want. I have never had a dude I’ve dated even the one I’m with currently to ask me who I’ve slept with and where my pussy has been before he got to it. Every dude past a teenager knows folks male and female are out there fucking. Ain’t no virgins up in here. All my dude is concerned about is how many ways he can make my toes curl and how many ways he can make me scream, and how many ways he can make me happy out of bed. He ain’t got time to be worried about who came before him. We both got checked out, we are both free of STD’s so we are both happy and getting it on. Any dude overly concerned about what a woman did with her vjay before she even knew him, is a little dick dude who has no bedroom skills, has low self esteem and probably sucks in bed anyway. Not someone any woman wants to waste time with.
@Deborrah I dont care if you have written over 1 million articles, that still doesn’t stop you from having two names, I’ am not stupid I know your Razzy thats your alter ego for writing things (insults included) you REALLY want to write but can’t under your real account Deborah cooper because you have to maintain a certain image. I’m not mad at you, I understand but I’am addressing your two names as the same person.
Anyway….We are writing about being a gentleman in terms of courtship/dating not holding doors for old people that’s a red herring. Of course it has to do with sex and relationships thats what courting/dating leads to. If someone is getting into a relationship it is there business if they choose to make it so to know about your past. Some people male OR female don’t want to be with someone who’s been passed around more times than a rugby ball, that’s reality.
I have been asked and strangely enough the women asked me first as they are just curious to know about the person they want to spend time with it builds TRUST, I didn’t hide anything from them or respond rudely or snap at them saying its none of their business. If it turned out that weren’t happy with my answers then we were obviously not right for each other.
The fact that you would say its none of your business or lie even means that you have something to hide and your not honest, and from alot of people that would be a deal-breaker.
Kim Kardasian is an exception not the rule, she has looks, money and celebrity status so certain obstacles can be overcome, just like an unattractive man with faults but has fame and money will have women swooning over them.
Some men just want to know a woman’s past so he can figure out how to use it against her later. If you had an abortion, if you had sex more than a few times, the number of men you slept with, how kinky the sex was, how long it took before you to slept with men from previous relationships – men will use it all somehow, some way to judge a woman or get her to do what he wants.
I find it stupid how some men want a woman to be a virgin or near virginal when they are the ones out sleeping with as many women as they can! You can’t have a woman who has never had sex and had sex at the same time! If men want a virgin, then men need to have sex only after they are married, and only with their wife!
@xDashx LOL! You are thinking that I need to use two names on my own website? Are you kidding me? Have you noticed how many articles I’ve written, advice columns and books? I don’t need to PRETEND to be anything other than myself homie. I don’t use two names, I just use mine – from You Tube to Facebook to The Examiner and on all my websites I use just one name. Mine. So your post starts off assuming something that is not true.
As for the rest of what you want, a woman can act like a lady but still not tell you about her past. You don’t need to know that because what she did with her coochie before you came along is none of your business. If you were a gentleman you would be one 24/7/365 even to old men and women, and to children. If your “gentlemanly behaviors” are demonstrated only when the possibility of pussy is involved, then you are not a gentleman, you are a manipulator.
Men shell out whatever they have when they want the woman bad enough. Kim Kardashian is a perfect example. She’s slept around, and has a sordid past even has a porno movie that everyone has seen. But that doesn’t stop millions of men from wanting to be with or even marry her because of her BEAUTY and her BOOTY. So if your dick got hard enough over a woman, you’d pay every dime you had to be with her and wouldn’t care about her past.
You lying to yourself trying to make yourself feel better about your fears of women, but I know the deal.
Deborah Cooper aka Razzy – it dont matter how many names you post under, or ad hominems, or personal attacks you fire off, my opinion and several other men’s opinion will still be the same on subjects like this, men have right as well women to know about your past if they choose to.
If you want the benefits of old traditional chivalry 1950s style (men being gentlemen paying for dates etc) then you have to act like lady aka non-promiscuous, ladylike etc the two go hand in hand, no way around it.
I guarantee you, the majority of men aren’t going to be shelling out bucks paying for dates rolling out the red carpet if they know a woman to have a sordid past, you’ll just get a “come chill at my crib” line, don’t believe me ask men. Yeah you have a few simps here and there but that just doesn’t happen this is not “Pretty woman” movie.
And you mentioned double standards but I never wrote or implied it was OK for men to sleep around either so your argument falls flat Deborah.
@xDashx @Deborrah
Ms Cooper is exactly right. We are talking about a woman’s past and you all off on some tangent about paying for dates. One has nothing to do with the other. Stop using paying for dates as a way to get over being a broke and stingy dude who no woman wants to be bothered with anyway. then you try to act like you’re entilted to know a woman’s past. When men are virgins are damn near virgins themselves, then they can expect little Miss pure as the driven snow but if you ain’t no virgin you shouldn’t expect one. You are probably some dude who ought to be glad a woman gives you the time of the day but with your dumb double standard attitude you probably haven’t had pussy since pussy had you. Only silly men think like you do.
@Deborrah (I was replying to Razzy who specifically wrote about womens pasts, not about abortion….)
Thats not mixing peanuts with watermelons, they are both old traditions, and if you want to hold onto your traditional 1950s view in the year 2012 of men paying for dates, then men have a right to expect chastity and ask about your sexual past, period.
Women and men look for different qualities in a partner, and whats important to you whilst selecting a potential husband i.e paying for dates may not be important to men. And what’s important to men selecting a potential wife i.e chastity, non-promiscuous women may not be important to you. Those are just two examples but the point is if you dont respect our requirements, why should WE respect yours???!!?
@xDashx What does paying for a date that YOU asked a woman out on have to do with asking a woman about her past? You are mixing peanuts and watermelons. Promiscuous has nothing to do with an abortion either – a woman could have been with just ONE man in her life and still chose to have an abortion. She may have been sexually assaulted and chose to abort the fetus. She may have been molested by a relative as a teen, and her parents chose to abort the fetus. What is “promiscuous” anyway? Young men that have never been married idealize vaginas and think they should have a damn near virgin have a completely different concept of it than a mature man that has been married before, has children or has been dating around for several decades.
Okay, let’s start by getting off topic then I will return to the topic at hand. There is nothing new under the SUN. The art of courting a woman precedes modern time and is FULLY practiced in other CURRENT black, white, Asian, Latin, Polynesian countries. America has become a country now nearly majority foreign born. Case in point, a popular American show filmed in white Italy for a season, the show called Jersey Shore. The inability of the men on that show to take advantage of Italian women versus their ability to take advantage of American women was glaringly obvious. On American shore’s a few choice word here and there and the women is already engaging in sex, whereas in Italy they had Absolutely no such luck, NONE. My point being this, If a woman chooses to carry her self like that from the time nature decides to give to her the gift of life, IT IS HER CHOICE. Why is it, women in Italy and don’t get me started on Caribbean women, Latin American women, and the vast majority of Middle Eastern women, African women, also Asian women are not plagued with the same embarrassing array of PAST experiences as the typical American women. If you choose to sow your wild oaks, you have a population of women who are stone cold bloody Killers. Your vagina is designed to produce children, You and you alone have the right to allow a man to have sex with you. Women chose what is fashionable to have sex with today, then regret their choices tomorrow followed by destroying a life in the future, YES I judge, I truly don’t care. Simply because, women always present themselves to me as an opposite of your past, to me, that is deplorable. I present myself as myself, I am slender, black from Caribbean decent, literate, nerdier, a non father because I prefer selfish sex over lust filled sex, PERIOD. There is no lie, nor no hidden closets. Lies, deceit, & false imagery are rampant in this nation, that’s why so many foreigners create enclaves for their communities away from the existing American culture. In closing, I am not bashing how it is, I am simply stating how it is going to be. The country is changing, the actions and beliefs of other cultures are invading the everyday life of Americans. If an American women wants to present herself as an appropriate wife to many foreign men, who ALWAYS presents her to their MOTHER. You’ll need to clean up your dirty ways not by lies, beacuse MOTHERS always reads lies, but through actions and deeds. Because, right now, you’ll seem like nothing but dirty trash to many of them. Oh by the way, it had one episode on Jersey shore were the men at the bar poured water on the American women and chanted “Shameful, Shameful, Shameful.”
No, the vagina is not designed to have children. That is the uterus and ovaries. The ovaries create the ovum and the uterus holds and nourishes the fetus. Women can use their vaginas all day every day and as long as no sperm reaches the ovum, we’re good. That is why condoms, foam, and diaphragms were invented – to prevent such conception.
American men are so very naive they think that women in other countries keep their vaginas pure for them. What a joke. You have been sold MARKETING dude. Asian women hump and screw just like everyone else. Every woman from any corner of the world likes to have sex with the man she cares for. So all these men thinking they are going to have new territory to plunder need to get over it. It’s so funny!!!
@appintelwaters “Okay, let’s start by getting off topic then I will return to the topic at hand”
You all off on some tangent and never did get on topic. Your long rambling rant amounted to nothing more than condemning women. You act as if you are a Casinova who has wooed women across the globe. Your condescending remark about what a woman’s vagina is designed to do show your sexist attitude. A woman’s vagina is designed to have a penis inserted inside of it and have sex, not just to give birth. You are a ignorant sexist fool. Since you hate American women so much, you would do well to go overseas and get a woman who is stupid enough to have you because she doesn’t know any better. Usually when I read these rants from males like you, it is because you have been rejected by the woman you want and you wanted her vagina and couldn’t get it, so now you are whining like a baby. What a loser.
@Razzy
Honestly, I don’t want to get in any back and forth. You title me a Loser, I accept, a Whiner, I accept, a Sexist, I accept, a basher of American women, I accept. First off, if I came across like that to many, I can’t change your perception, I just cannot, but, numbers don’t LIE, neither have I. I presented OBJECTIVE proof, you presented SUBJECTIVE taunts, really not that serious. Cassinova me never, for what, to deal with the haunting memory of women I have decieved, I’ll save that for the Playboys.Am I ranting, and my thoughts are not consistent and precise, WHO CARES, just not that serious. I merely shared my observation, their are alot of prevailing beliefs that does support my observation, beliefs that counts, namely my sister and Mother, if you think i judge, present yourself as unsavory or deciptive or secretive to them and see, what they say. It’s reality, you reap what you sow. Like I stated, It’s her choice. end of story. In closing Doogan made a great point, A woman’s past can present a GREAT dilemma for a man. GAME a great show on BET ended one of it’s Season on a Cliffhanger, about a (percieved) clean cut Medical girl, Who withheld the Abortion topic from her Husband, I didn’t write the scrip, nor did I act the role, but for some men, who believes, the essence of living is giving life, the notion of ABORTION is destructive. So, basically, would you say, since my beliefs are similar to his (who is an actor) his reaction was unwarrented, and that’s a SHOW. Women, listen and listen GOOD, I don’t care where you’re from or what you are told, if you truly believe MEN are a blanket set of humans with similar mindset and predictable behavior, like we all are entranced by women and women only, guess again, for some MEN. Their interest lie in their own SELFISH desires whether it be other MEN, MONEY, POWER, BLOOD, what the HELL EVER they want, If they don’t want to deal with your irrational changing desires, THEY SIMPLY WON’T, PERIOD. So, simply ask yourself, what do this man in front of me Wants, if you’re their long enough, it will manifest itself REALLY FAST. Man look, like I stated in my earlier post, we are in a changing world, PERIOD. Razzy, you hold unto your beliefs and I’ll maintain mine, who WINS, I DON”T CARE. I don’t like ill advised women, telling me who I am. I don’t CARE.
en @appintelwata “Honestly, I don’t want to get in any back and forth”
Then why bother to respond with yet another long incoherent disjointed rambling post (which I did not bother to read through).
My take on it is just as men are socialized to set themselves up as judge and jury and condemn women, women are socialized by religion to put themselves in the hot seat to be condemned. History shows that it is the woman who gets called out for ‘her alleged sins’. Who was branded with the ‘Scarlet Letter it is the woman who is dragged from prison and led before town with a red cloth pinned to her breast in the shape of the letter A. It is the woman who is held accountable for her ‘sins’. All this harkens back to religion. Where men who created religion have set themselves up to judge and condemn a woman all based on ‘religious beliefs and women have been brainwashed into ‘opening their pie holes’ and confessing their sin’s in the hopes of forgiveness and cleansing. . So while women do talk to much, I think we have to look at historically why they do? Because it has been the men who have indoctrinated women into believing if she commits certain sexual acts engages in certain ways, she is unclean. So in the back of a lot of women’s mind they feel they are unclean. Men (even those who claim to be atheist), still hold onto that belief that they can judge a woman for her past acts. Black men are especially guilty of this.
This is one more reason why women need to turn that religious crap loose. All it does is keep women mired down feeling bad about themselves and that they have to constantly feel they have to live up to some males idea of what a woman ought to be in terms of purity. (While the male goes around and plays manwhore all over town free from any condemnation and guilt. Men are told, that it is a rite of passage for them to ‘sew their wild oats’ before settling down with the ‘right woman’ (who of course must be pure as the driven snow). While women are given a different message from birth.
I point the finger of blame right at the man. He set up society’s rules and brainwashed everyone in them with religion for thousands of years. Religion has controlled women and kept them submissive and having to hold themselves accountable to men for 1000’s of years. So is it any wonder women are still walking around in 2012 thinking they have to ‘explain themselves and how they behave with their vjayjay to some dude who wasn’t even in their life previously?
Stop drinking religious koolaide ladies and free your mind.
It’s a question of compatibility.
Back in college one of my professors told the class about a study investigating what factors contribute to relationship longevity. One of the top predictors of relationship success was whether both people practiced equal levels of disclosure. This has held true in my personal experience.
So if you believe that anything that happened prior to meeting a man is none of his business, then you’d do well to find a man who feels similarly about his past. But if you find yourself on a date with a man who’s running for Mayor of Overshareville (and I confess to being guilty of this), then you should move on since he’ll probably desire a similar level of openness from you.
You’re not obligated to share any details about your past with any man. Similarly, no man is obligated to enter or continue a relationship with you if he’s not comfortable with your level of disclosure. You may consider the information to be none of his business, and he’s free to take a walk if he disagrees.
And taking a walk is exactly what you should do if you’re dealing with a man who insists on knowing things that you don’t want to share. But you should NEVER lie. The truth never gets buried completely. There’s a good chance that at some point somebody who knows you is going to let something slip, and then it’s going to hit the fan. Once a man knows that you’re willing to lie about an abortion, he’ll wonder if there’s anything you aren’t willing to lie about. It’s all downhill from there.
No man has the power to read minds or know anything about what a woman did with her body 5, 10 or 15 years ago. There are no markers on a woman’s body that says she got an abortion, or two, or five. He would never know unless she told other people or she told him. If she kept it to herself, or the people that did know are out of her life, then there is no way he would ever find out UNLESS SHE TOLD HIM.
The same applies to men. Your new woman has no reason to know that in college you got a girl pregnant and she got an abortion because she was a student and neither of you had a dime. What would telling her that do for your new relationship? What benefit is it? Why would you tell some other woman’s business to some new broad just because you are dicking her? See, this is the problem I have with that mentality. Men talk too much.
Men also love to make idle threats and scare women. Women need to be aware of the games. No woman ever ‘slips’ – if she told you its because she wanted to. I cannot imagine any reason a friend or family member of hers would bring up a past abortion if they knew about it either – the only reason they would discuss such a thing is if you asked “hey has my girl ever had an abortion?” I advocate that her family and friends put the smash on any such guy and tell him “Why would you even ask me something like that? How am I supposed to know?” and dodge the question completely, sending you back to the woman you are with.
If a woman chooses to lie about an abortion because her guy refuses to accept that even asking the question is over the top, then she should do it. She has every right to. A man with any sense would never ask such a question in the first place, so if he is dumb enough to inquire about something so personal and private, and his woman lies to him, then oh well.
@Doogan “So if you believe that anything that happened prior to meeting a man is none of his business, then you’d do well to find a man who feels similarly about his past.”
Except that society has brainwashed men into thinking they are entitled to know a woman’s past and judge her accordingly while holding men to a separate standard when it comes to dating/mating. Therefore men tend to think once he gets involved in a woman, her ‘business’ is his business even if he chooses to keep his past to himself.
@Razzy Why shouldn’t it be our business? If some women like yourself can hold on to the old male traditional standard of men always paying for dates, valentines day gifts, refusing to go dutch etc….
Then men should hold onto old female traditional standard of wanting chastity and not accepting promiscuous women for marriage material etc and I fully support that etc. You do your thing….and will do ours. 😉