Female Submission – Why Weak Men Want Submissive Women

| 10/05/2009 | Comments (58)

For the past week I’ve participated in a lively exchange on the issue of female submission in romantic relationships. The source of the conflict was a V-log posting by Shanel Cooper (no relation … that I know of anyway) entitled Your Power is in Submissionfemale submission

Judging by the comments posted, I am apparently in the minority in my thinking. Many of the male posters cosigned in droves. They were quite excited to find a woman willing to submit to men, and who was openly encouraging other women to do the same.

I couldn’t get on board with the nonsense.

Breaking Down Female Submission

First of all, the references to submission in “a relationship” were inaccurate. Though I am not religious, even I know that the Bible specifically references “wife” and “husband” when it instructs on submission. This fact automatically rules out all those wanna be the boss baby daddy knucklehead types who think that all females should categorically submit to all males. For those women that ascribe to the doctrine of female submission, be sure that you limit your submission to the one man that steps up and makes you his wife.

However, female submission is not something I advocate for women at all. I heard from several men and women online and offline that perhaps I was looking at the whole thing wrong, that submission wasn’t always negative, and that it means that a couple is cooperating. In reality the words “cooperation” and “submission” have two entirely different meanings:

Submission: (1) the act of submitting, yielding, or surrendering; (2) the quality or condition of being submissive; resignation; obedience; meekness; (3) the act of submitting to the authority or control of another: “Oppression that cannot be overcome does not give rise to revolt but to submission” (Simone Weil); (4) the condition of having submitted to the power of someone else; (5) the condition of being submissive, humble, or compliant.

Cooperation: (1) an act or instance of working or acting together for a common purpose or benefit; joint action; (2) to work or act together; (3) to assist or be willing to assist. However, cooperation may be coerced (forced), voluntary (freely chosen), or even unintentional, and consequently individuals and groups might cooperate even though they have few goals or values in common. Examples are wars, families, jobs, schools and prisons… any institution or organization of which individuals are a part due to free will and their own choice, by law, or by force.

In other words, a man might gain a woman’s cooperation and/or submission by physically assaulting her, threatening to assault her, by threatening to take her children from her, or even to leave her. This type of manipulation happens frequently when the male’s primary goal is to gain the upper hand, to feel powerful, and to have others submit to his desires and will… to WIN.

(continued on page 2 below)

 

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Deborrah

Veteran social researcher, relationship advice columnist, author and radio host. Author of hundreds of articles on American and black culture, gender issues, singles, dating and relationships. Author of "Sucka Free Love!" , "The 24 Types of Suckas to Avoid," "The Black Church - Where Women Pray and Men Pray," and "Why Vegan is the New Black" all available on Amazon.Com. Her unique voice and insightful commentary have delighted fans and riled haters for 20 years. Read her stuff on SurvivingDating.Com and AskHeartBeat.Com.

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  1. Deborrah says:

    @SinTheGlobalPandemic Fuck God.

  2. lebdaigle says:

    So if you had a daughter you wouldn’t mind her being the same kind of person you are, believing that there is some form of sick love in completely submitting yourself to a man and pleasure from pain. You would be ok with teaching your daughter this as she grew up to be like you by watching you? You would be ok with teaching your son it’s ok to hurt women, so when he grows up he can do it to you and other women?

  3. kimmipolski says:

    Correction: a weak person doesn’t have a mind of their own, which is what makes them weak in the first place. And please don’t come with your “biblical occult manipulation”. Some of us can see through you. Any female who has dated an abusive male knows a weak guys greatest desire is to have a slave puppet to walk talk and bow whenever. Loving, GOD FEARING men respect the woman for being able to think for herself and progress in life. Im blessed with a very intelligent wonderful wife and wouldn’t have her any other way.

  4. KieranFoley says:

    Your opinions don’t exist in a vaccum. If you write something someone finds offensive, whether it’s your site or not then the accused are likely to attack you. Women deserve to be respected and treated as equal with their values and requests taken seriously, just as mens opinions are. This doesn’t however mean that it’s the right of either party to not expect repercussions for what they have said. When you say things like “I don’t worry about pleasing other people. It’s my site and I write to please myself. I don’t know you so I could not, even if I tried, care less than I do right now about your thoughts on the matter” it gives the impression that you only really care about yourself. It also gives the impression that you are perfectly happy offending people about their personal choices in life. This irresponsibility and self righteousness is exactly why there is oppresion of any kind exists in the first place.

  5. chrissibug123 says:

    In the bible women are to be subissive but weak but have a mind of thier own.

  6. chrissibug123 says:

    I also  have a group I lead on fetlife a bdsm group called the 1950’s lifestyle with a thousand people I give advice I have seen women that been hurt in the lifestyle  of bdsm all  they need is someone to watch over them I have a  Dom friend that does that for me. I had a master before I was trained in to the lifestyle also but this was what I wanted no one forced me because I was born a submissive you can’t just wake up and say I am a sub. I am in to pain and pleasure and being whiped but this done out of love not abuse if its not your thing then don’t do it but I am not locked in a cage 24/7 i still live my life and in private I am a submissive. Women can still have a life and a job and have freedom with a man in the lifestyle all it takes is trust and earning some ones hurt. Every one is different  in the lifestyle and I feel things should be agreed on so the the women knows what she is getting just as the man. Both people have to happy or it will not last. I have also been to bdsm clubs and thier are couples that come out in to the seen and share thier life just as anyone else. The men that make a girl get on cam and get naked tell them if they don’t or they wont meet them or be with them they are a user a guy that just want to get off a real man would treat you with respect and wait for you and take you to dinner and get to you. women are worth more then rubys we are not animals we are maid from men we all need respect. cuddling, going to dinner or when its play time in the bdsm seen its up to you and your partner. Some people are mentally unstable and they dont want to settle down they just want to control a women and throw her in a age and take her out when he wants to he will pimp her out that is not real love that is brain washing.

  7. chrissibug123 says:

    I have been in the lifestyle for 10 years thier are men that pose to be a good master but you can not tel la women to get on her kness and obey at first it takes time and a women needs to have a mind of her own because no one can be a control freak.

  8. ClayChilde says:

    i know this article was written 3 years ago, but I have to respond to feminist drivel which is acutely adolescent and immature. I’m almost embarrassed. And reading the comments from fellow (sorry, sister) feminists… well, it makes me wince.
     
    It’s all a question of opposites and energy flow which you would know if you were versed in Tantra, or had any real relationships. The masculine is positive, power, force… the feminine is negative (in a polar sense), yielding and passivity. The submissive, or yielding, woman is a beautiful woman – not to be emotionally or physically abused, but to be loved. Weak men either abuse or want to be abused. The truly strong man is a noble man requiring a noble woman who understands herself and her sexuality.
     
    And of course, it’s about human nature, something of which the adolescent feminist knows NOTHING. It amazes me how sterile feminist thought really is. The victim of feminist brainwashing is unwilling, or unable, to break into the real world – the world of human nature and common sense where grown-up women stop parroting feminist doctrine like brainless automatons and no longer suffer from Obsessive Gender-Studies Syndrome.

    • Deborrah says:

      Sigh. You can call it whatever you want, but the bottom line is that your mentality is the reason the article was written. To expose what MEN have labeled as ‘feminine” and “masculine”. You sound like a parrot. Men do not have a patent on strength, aggression, determination, focus, power, leadership or force. Neither do women have the patent on emotions, gentleness, caring, tenderness and understanding. Your thinking is so patriarchial though you try to couch it in big words and a cloth of being embarrassed by feminism. I know your game and it won’t fly here.

      Men have intentionally given themselves the upper hand in all situations by labeling everything that has to do with power and control “manly” and things that have to do with weakness and powerlessness “feminine.” Well feminine can go suck butt. I refuse to portray myself as weak so some male that is weak and confused and lost can ‘feel like a man’ by standing on my head. He needs to get it together and stand on his own BESIDE me. Because I will never stand behind him. Ever.

    • OneWord says:

       @ClayChilde I do agree with you regarding your second paragraph.  For me, with relationships the issue is not about having ‘equal rights’ to men or outdoing them socioeconomically but a simple equilibrium, particularly emotionally, entitatively and spiritually, with them.  A strong (and attractive) man knows to nurture, honour and protect his female partner accordingly in the body, mind and soul while the woman not only edifies those three aspects of him too but is also safe, secure and strengthened by that very man enough to trust him WITH her body, mind and soul.  It’s a concord of mutual enrichment, where both parties are equal in love and honour.  The problem comes when abuse and exploitation creep into that supposed concord and the focus shifts from the other to the ego.

    • Deborrah says:

       @ClayChilde You are using definitions of words created by men. MEN decided what is masculine and what is feminine, not women. So I can now, as a woman in 2012, decide that your definition is bullshit and denounce it. You can ascribe to that nonsense if you wish, but it has no bearing on my reality. What is female is strength, power, dynamic energy, creativity, love, communication, emotional intelligence, analytical intelligence, use of both sides of the brain, and the ability to bring forth life. What do men have? Brawn and aggression. Don’t think women can’t get aggressive too though! Watch what a woman does if you try to hurt her baby she will kick your ass. 

      And you say the word ‘feminist’ like its a disease. LOLOL! Typical control freak trying to feel superior and garner your sense of manhood by putting women into a basket of weakness and fluff. Pahleeze! I will go toe to toe with any man any day about anything. There has not been a man born that is tougher than me. Have you never questioned the fact that you can only feel like men if a woman is weak and docile and submissive? I think such a necessity and inability to define yourself demonstrates marked weakness and insecurity. 

      Every woman should be a feminist… every man as well. Because the meaning of feminist is a person that advocates women be treated equally. But since you think such a concept is evil and to be labeled a feminist something to be ashamed of, it show you don’t really understand what a feminist is. Let your daughter be submissive and weak to some guy you know isn’t worthy of her, and let’s see how much you like seeing her used and talked to crazy.

      Somehow when men see things in their own beloved daughters, the light comes on and that’s when you all get a clue.

      • ClayChilde says:

        @Deborrah How vacuous and malformed are your opinions. Preaching to the converted with politically correct untruths may thrill your feminist sisters, but to everyone else it shows that your lob-sided take on life is as skewed as your feminist rant. 
         
        You obviously have a deep hatred of men. Your rage and distorted view of masculinity and maleness is utterly self-defeating. You say “There has not been a man born that is tougher than me.” Do you not realise how sad this sounds? Your whole life revolves around the battle of the sexes – you must beat men at their own game by acting tough and aggressive, a playground mentality that displays a massive inferiority complex. For all your bluster you actually detest and loathe women. Your obsessive need to banish all weakness and kill off any sign of femininity makes you an empty shell of a woman. In my view femininity is not weakness, but quite the opposite. You might be able to beat one of those loathsome creatures called a man at arm-wrestling or drink him under the table, but femininity can bring him to his knees.
         
        So stew in your pot of bile. There is no man or woman of reason who will listen to you.

        • Deborrah says:

          @ClayChilde
          That is where you are wrong. When a woman would dare (as I do) call you alleged “MEN” out on your babyish ways, your need to dominate and control and destroy women’s spirit in order to feel powerful and masculine, YOU throw a tantrum. You are the weak one at this party, resorting to name calling and character assinations in an attempt to win. You will never win an argument with me. Ever. No man will. You all don’t think fast or deeply enough on any subject to compete with me intellectually.
          Secondly, there is nothing masculine or manly about a male that needs to stand on a woman’s head in order to feel tall and like he is something. That male is weak. Real men agree with me and hate punks that act like you do.
          I really don’t care that you come and throw a tantrum. Your immaturity merely reinforces my belief that male weakness and a need to attack and demean women in order to regain your sense of strength is the tool of the weak man. You wield it well.
          There is no hatred of MEN here, however there is disgust of males suffering from BITCHASSEDENESS SYNDROME, running around masquerading as men, demanding to get the benefits and treatment of men, demanding to be acknowledged as something they ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT by women.
          As I said above (but you don’t seem to get it)… the word ‘femininity’ is a male defined term. Women do not have to limit themselves or present themselvess as soft, weak, or incapable to fluff up your ego and make you feel like the big man. Feel like a big man on your own dammit! Stop depending on women to define you as a man! Damn! Can’t you alleged MEN do anything without involving a woman in it?
          You want women to be weak, powerless and fluffy so you can own power, strength and anything firm so you can ‘feel like a man.’ You types enjoy women that you can roll your eyes about and make jokes about how silly they are and how much they need you. For you the opposite of what is feminine describes your masculinity. Unless a woman is weak and stupid you cannot feel like a man and that worries you. When you see a woman that refuses to be labeled and pigeon holed by your standards you feel extremely threatened and wonder if you truly ARE a man after all. But instead of working on yourself, you come to MY website and attack a person you know absolutely nothing about. It never fails that you knuckleheads always resort to asking about whether a woman has a man and what her sex life is like as if that makes her successful in life and gives her credibility to speak her mind. Kiss my ass. You don’t get to define me, my sex life or my work. Neither do you get to put me into the cage you want me to be in. I do what I want to do, and say whatever the hell I want to say. I’m grown.
          You are a loser of the most immense proportions. It’s hard to imagine that a woman would even look at you, let alone date or marry you. Such a loser. Go stew in your own pot of bile. There is no woman in the world of intelligence that would ever listen to an idiot like you.

  9. lolatwomen says:

    LOL @ “Women are powerful, smart, strong creatures, emotionally resilient, caring, and in touch with themselves and others emotionally. Women are by far the stronger of the sexes in every way but physically; and if a woman weight trains, even that is a 50/50 proposition”
     
    You’ve had rights for less then 100 years, and we chose to give them to you.  Stop bitching.

  10. Jeremy says:

    Question:

    Where does BDSM go into on this?

    Reading over comments, I’m a little perturbed at the ‘One way or the Other’ line of thought that seems to be so prevalent.

    I have a happy, healthy relationship with my girlfriend. It’s not perfect, but we’ve worked together and have made great strides in our respective careers. Marriage is something of a topic beneath the surface, but that’s a mox-nix. We may or may not.

    But, asides the point really – We’ve both made compromises in our personal lives. I quit smoking and cut out some (with hindsight) very bad ‘friends’ whom I didn’t need in my life.

    I’ve gotten her into dancing, made her go easy on the drinking and we’ve both set up a regular work-out routine for the two of us.

    Is the fact she’s submitted or even compromised to some things I’ve asked of her make her a submissive, spineless woman? I have to say, if you honestly believe that to be the case, you’re going to sound a little radical.

    Now, that’s all just IRL, our personal and professional lives out in the day.

    As for the bedroom? – She happens to have a kink for light bondage, whips, etc. Mild to Moderate BDSM. And a LOT of women (and even some men) happen to have this kink. They’re all ‘socialized’ brainless drones?

    I’ve only forced my GF into doing something she didn’t want to do ONCE due to a mistake, I reconciled and made up for it soon afterwards and felt terrible about it.

    Now, I’d also ask you to take two seconds to go actually read up on BDSM – any experienced individual will tell you that it is the SUBMISSIVE who holds the power there, they’re the ones who have the power to say NO. To hold the safe word and whether they even wish to partake in it or NOT.

    Judging from some of the other comments I’ve seen on this. – I’d get the idea you all think I’m some sort of serial rapist. At least some individuals would gleefully jump to that conclusion.

    Just oei.

    Speaking for myself at least, I keep my Bedroom and Professional life private. My girlfriend is able to make her own decisions, and we work together on harder things. (I.E. – One of our larger discussions in marriage (or NOT) is that her company offers a better health package than mine.)

    Blagh. – Anyways, Yes I’d agree there are some weak, spineless men out there who pretty much want the fictionalized ‘Yes maid.’ – Have you watched Hentai or other such things? Good god, they start taking that shit as a fact.

    The only other thing I’d ask is that you try to be a bit more subjective. – I don’t think you’re being inflammatory to promote discussion, some of your comments reek of misandry, on a personal level. If I’m wrong, feel free to cite how and why.

    But really, extremism on either end is just cancerous to everyone.

    • Deborrah says:

      We are not talking about a lifestyle that people BOTH WILLINGLY CHOOSE TO LIVE to enhance their sexual experience. That is not at all what I am talking about and you know it. The males I am talking about would not allow a female to choose to participate in BDSM, they would demand that she acquiesce to their desires because she is supposed to be submissive like God says, because she is a woman and he is the man. He will have no challenges to his authority because he is the man, dammit!

      You are missing the entire point here. Hopefully now that I have explained it, you can go back and read the article with fresh eyes and ears, and better grasp the concepts.

      • curiousone8706 says:

        Well then it isn’t being a dominant in the relationship; it is being domineering, manipulative and abusive. And as for the BDSM lifestyle, it’s not that different from vanilla- in fact many abusive men operate ‘under’ BDSM to take advantage of female submissives all because they have a title called “Sir” or “master”. This is akin to Biblical teaching “submit to me because God says so” vs. “submit to me because I am an experienced Master and you’re a submissive and all submissives submit to all Masters”.
        At first I was personally baffled and angered by your ‘anti-submission’ articles but then I reread them and learned that the key element here is that the female is not evaluating the man prior to getting into a relationship. In fact, the female may have a case of ‘sub frenzy’ in which she is so anxious to be in a relationship she leaves all common sense (and intuition)behind.  So the female submitting to a weaker man is a bigger problem than just biblical indoctrination.

    • OneWord says:

      The relationship you described with your girlfriend sounds like one of mutual compromise, which is not a problem whatsoever.  That is the whole point of any relationship: a union between two individuals where middle ground and mutuality result from give-and-take.  In that case, I wouldn’t call it a ‘submissive’ relationship.  Besides compromise, other key ingredients to a relationship are empathy, respect, awareness and above all, love, which should be mutual.
       
      The real problem arises when in a relationship, Person A demands that Person B vacates all awareness and right to self to essentially be under the control of Person A, worsening with Person A using negative methods constantly (e.g. coercion, subjugation, intimidation) to ensure that happens.  What further exacerbates this is when Person A is not responsible, trustworthy, empathetic, caring, strong or (self-)aware enough to assume any supposed ‘leadership’ role, thus jeopardising the welfare of Person B.  Where are the respect and love in that setup?
       
      This ‘deity complex’ is usually seen in those with low self-esteem and to hide both their weakness and mortification of that, they project their negativity onto another person, attempting to destructively manipulate their character.  By doing so, they can feel assured they are not the ‘only one’ with a problem as well as try to create a quasiperfect fantasy that nobody – not even they themselves – can reach.  It all relates to true egocentricity, which has no place in any relationship.

  11. Carol says:

    Excellent article and great comments.

  12. Barbra says:

    As I submissive woman let me tell you that you have got it all wrong, and on so many levels.

    • Raz says:

      As a submissive woman, you don’t know any viewpoint but being under the rule of a man. Therefore you have no credibility to speak to women who don’t buy into that submissive mindset Barbra

    • Barbara, you choose to be a carpet and lay under some man’s feet. Other women do not choose to do that. Does not make either of us wrong. However I caution you to make sure what you are describing as “submissive” does not lead you down the path of being disrespected, taken for granted, and emotionally abused by your man. Many of these guys that insist on “submission” actually refuse to accept that a woman has a voice, desires, and interests that he doesn’t like, prescribe for her or approve of. And if you are a woman that gives up everything because your man doesn’t like it or want you to do it – then you are not submissive, you are a damn fool.

  13. caleb says:

    male submissive here. I believe that you should definitely put much thought into it. Men are not necesarily very strong. There are us weak men too, the major points i thought about before i went into my relationship were not very different from these points here. I had to first consider whether i should trust Her or not. i thought about whether icould handle it physically, mentally, and emotionally. I honestly dont see a problem with D/s relationships.

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