Creflo Dollar Black Women Black Church Normalized Abuse and Violence

| 06/10/2012 | Comments (40)

 

Black Women Have Normalized Physical and Emotional Abuse; Support Creflo Dollar’s Attack on his Daughter

Since the news broke on Friday that “Mega-church” pastor Creflo A. Dollar was arrested for assaulting his 15-year-old daughter, the rationalizations from his largely female supporters range from disgusted to the blind faith of black women and men who find ways to justify a 50 year old adult male who represents himself as a man of God tackling his daughter to the ground, slapping her, choking her, and beating her with his shoe.

Somewhere in the middle are those who support corporal punishment in the home in theory and admit to having spanked their own children at one time or another. There are those of us that can recall being spanked during childhood for misdeeds that we KNEW were wrong when we were doing them and had no problem with the punishment we knew was coming!

But when does a parent meting out just punishment cross the line and become terrorizing, physically abusing and degrading a child? How can anyone believe such treatment of a child in a case such as this is with Creflo Dollar an appropriate form of discipline?

We believe it lies in the mindset that black people have about three things:

(1) That men of God like Creflo Dollar are anointed and can do no wrong;

(2) That when a man hits or hurts a female, somehow she deserved it and she ‘made him’ do it; and

(3) That violence in the black community by men towards women and children is so normalized, such an everyday occurrence that black women don’t even question it.

Why is such violence towards women normalized in the black community? Why are black women prone to justify physical and even sexual assaults on children by grown men, and to protect and make excuses for anything vile or violent done by a pastor, especially one as renown as Creflo Dollar?

These are the types of things discussed in detail in Deborrah Cooper’s new book The Black Church – Where Women Pray and Men Prey. We’ll discuss the timeliness of this just released book, Creflo Dollar, and how black women have normalized abuse of females in the name of love and God.

Call 347-327-9215 to participate in the discussion.

 

Click graphic to be taken directly to the live show or to download the show podcast.


The exciting new book The Black Church – Where Women Pray and Men Prey contains dozens of real-life stories of sexual abuse by Pastors, Ministers, Bishops, and church members, along with astute observations about the games being run on women in Black churches across the nation. Based on the shocking 2010 blog post The Black Church: How Black Churches Keep African American Women Single and Lonely! author Deborrah Cooper continues an uncomfortable examination of Christian religion in the black community, non-biblical Support independent publishing: Buy this book on Lulu.tenets of the prosperity gospel, and the games played by unscrupulous black preachers. It’s a page turner, but not everyone will have the stomach for it. Some women are afraid of what they might find when they pull back the curtain, and aren’t willing to question their blind faith in the men of their church. Neither are some able to understand that they must stop worshiping their pastors because these men are NOT God. However, for those women brave enough to question their religious leaders, willing to take a look at what is going on at their churches, and strong enough to demand protection from predatory men for women and children within the walls of the House of God, this book is right on time.

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  1. Deborrah says:

    All trolls are hereby reminded to review the Comment Rules for this site. The link is at the very top of the page in the uppermost navigation bar. Use of any of the banned terms will mean your comment will be deleted, never to be seen by human eyes. So coolbreeze, if you are wondering why your posts aren’t showing up, that’s why. They never will as long as you use any of the trigger words to describe the posters on this site.

    • AndreaLewis says:

      @Deborrah So, @coolbreeze took to name calling when he could not form a reasoned argument. Somehow, I’m not surprised. That is the typical “bitter, angry” troll response when their tactics have failed to derail a topic they don’t wish to see discussed.

  2. AndreaLewis says:

    @Deborrah @Razzy
    Don’t you just hate it when trolls pretend that you made up what THEY wrote, for all to see?
    @coolbreeze If you regret what you wrote, or didn’t mean it the way you wrote it, say so. EVERYONE CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT YOU WROTE, so there’s not much room for misinterpretation. And you still have failed to answer the question WHY we need to know the “whole story” / “have all the facts”  when a BW or girl is attacked by a BM, but NOT when a BM is attacked by a WM. Refusing to respond directly / honestly to comments you have CHOSEN to reply to and instead proposing straw-man arguments is yet another sign of a troll. Or maybe it’s just too difficult to think of a rational answer for your, and other AA’s, anti-BW and girls behavior?
     
    Another quote from YOU:
     
    “Tell em why you mad! LOOOL! i have my opinion and you have yours. And now sports…”
     
    Query: Did you LOL and make nonsensical jokes when Trayvon Martin was killed? I doubt it.
     
    If you ladies will recall, when a young BW was shot dead and her mother injured by a (now commonplace) degenerate BM who was angry that they had refused to cook and serve him — a complete and total stranger off the street — their food, plenty of BM were making jokes and LOL then too.
     
    Or when that young BW was shot in the head, saved by her home-made weave wig, after she refused to let her ex-boyfriend continue living off of her like a parasite. His attempt to end her life was supposed to be hilarious too. Not serious at all. Even that fool Tyra Banks got into the act. They never even discussed the motive behind the attempted murder on her show, because it might make BM look bad.
    Do you see a pattern?

    • Razzy says:

       @AndreaLewis  @Deborrah  @Razzy  @coolbreeze “Do you see a pattern”
       
      Yes I see a pattern.  Fools like Coolbreeze and male dominated women don’t value black women or their children.  Black women and males like coolbreeze have been brainwashed by religion to think the male is more important and the woman is merely his helpmeet.  So it is well within the males (the leader’s place) to ‘chastise his woman… (All of this is religious indoctrination). Even those males who claim to be atheist are still infected with religious influence. 
      Black women need to get their heads out of their azzes and let these black men take care of themselves and their causes.  Stop marching, supporting churches, (which are lead by males and are sexist), stop having fish fries and standing up for black men when this is all one sided.
      Black women are at the bottom of the totem pole because males put them there.  The next time I hear about black male crime, I will respond the same way they do.  Make jokes, blame shift, I have already withdrawn my dollar and time supporting black male lead causes.  I will throw my support exclusively behind black female only causes.
       
      Let these black fools sink to the bottom which is where they would remain anyway if there wasn’t a black woman helping them to come up.

      • AndreaLewis says:

         @Razzy  @Deborrah  @coolbreeze “Let these black fools sink to the bottom which is where they would remain anyway if there wasn’t a black woman helping them to come up.”
        ~Razzy
         

        That is exactly right!
        That’s probably why the same people who want to take a fine tooth comb to any allegation leveled against a BM by a BW/girl go NUTS whenever they see a video or read a blog post about BW in interracial relationships. You should read the crazy comments on YouTube sometime. “They mad” because they recognize that they’re seeing one less BW for them to use in their BM-centric agenda.
         
        No one ever posts comments saying “Black folks need to stick together” on videos by BM bashing BW. When BM post videos of themselves with their non-Black wife/girlfriend no one is telling them that they “deserve to DIE” because they’re not with a BW. But let a BW, or her non-Black husband, post a completely innocuous video of their wedding or their family’s recent vacation, and all hell breaks loose.
         
        Speaking of YouTube. There’s a video there called “Black Women BOYCOTT YOUR BASHERS and stand up for Justice” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n13L8W315U&feature=plcp
        I hope that you will watch and share with others.
         
        As you can guess, there a bunch of foolish Black folks trying to blame BM anti-BW behavior on everyone else, particularly the “global elite”. LOL. And, of course, a “mammy” who doesn’t think that refusing to hand her money over to BM who hate her/BW would help the situation. Now THAT is funny.

  3. coolbreeze says:

    Tell em why you mad! LOOOL! i have my opinion and you have yours. And now sports…

    • Razzy says:

       @coolbreeze Just like black men get mad at the racism they suffer at the hands of white men, black women get mad at the abuse they and their children suffer at the hands of black men.  And when black fools condone it, make excuses for it and essentially agree to it like you are doing coolbreeze, this makes you no better than the most racist redneck who lynches blacks. 
      Black women have a right to get mad when they run across fools who condone abuse to them.  If this were a situation with a black man getting beat down by white cops and black women were condoning it, blame shifting, and responding like you are doing herre, your butt would be mad and outraged. But that’s how black men behave. You act entitled to and expect black women’s support yet you have none to give to what matters not only to her but should matter to you as well. 
      Which is why my “opinion” to any type of egregious acts committed to black men by whites will be the exact same as black men’s opinion and concerns are towards black women..

      • AndreaLewis says:

         @Razzy  @coolbreeze I could not have said it better myself. BW need to STOP supporting those who refuse to support us.

  4. Razzy says:

    Studies have shown that where abuse is allowed it takes all forms.  This is a 15 year old teenager, this man should not be putting his ‘hands’ on her even if he is her father.  15 year old girls should not be ‘touched’ in this way.  This is not effective parenting.  If I were that mother Taffie I would open my eyes and really keep a close watch on my daughters in that household. 

  5. Razzy says:

    This was a great show with some very valid observations.  Black women have normalized abuse and it is sickening how many co-signed to what this stupid fool did to his15 year old daughter.

  6. coolbreeze says:

    Oh and dont take people’s opinions so personally! Its not that serious

    • Razzy says:

       @coolbreeze “Oh and don’t take people’s opinions so personally! It’s not that serious. 
      When ever men condone abuse towards women and children it is serious.  But the next time some racist shit happens to black men, women ought to take your same attitude and shrug and throw you all under the bus the same way you do when black women suffer at the hands of black men.  We should use your tactis.  ‘Black dude gets shot by a white cop because cop was suspicious.  Black men get all angry and want to cause an uproar and draw attention to the plight of black men getting killed due to racism.  Women ought to respond in the following ways. 
      1. . “It ain’t that serious, or ‘We don’t really know all the facts
      2. Well maybe the black dude was suspicious, after all, why would a white cop shoot a black man for no reason, he must have done something
      3.  Not all white cops are racist so we can’t play the race card
      4. We don’t have unrefuted evidence that the white cop intentionally shot the black dude
      5.  We need to give the white cop the benefit of the doubt
      6. We know most of our black men are trifling thugs in the streets, in order to make them safer cops have to do their job and if some black men get shot in the process, well that is just collatoral damage.
       
      See how it works?  Black women have to start being as cold, unfeeling, uncaring towards black men as they are towards black women.  Black women need to stop using their time/energy/money caring about the plight of black men, because when black women are abused, black men really could give less than a damn.  As long as they are not directly affected, they could care less. 

      • sunshiny says:

        You said a mouthful Razzy!  Seeing so many fools, defend, justify and blame the victim in this case is sickening!  The next time someone tries to tell me about some man’s plight, they might just get their feeling hurt!
         

  7. coolbreeze says:

    #1 How do know she wasn’t a bad child? Do you know this family personally? I never said what went on in my house is exactly what happened in this case. I said for all we know she could have been running her mouth, etc. then that could have been why he snapped on her, which led me to give an example of went on in my house. You seem to have such a strong opinion about this being that you weren’t at these folks residence when it happened. Why would anybody beat the hell out of their child for whining about not being able to go to a party? Come on now, lets get the full story before we crucify. Pastor or not.

    • Deborrah says:

       @coolbreeze Neither do you. We DO know that there have been no reports from people that DO know the family personally that this was expected, that she was a wayward child, nothing negative. But suddenly people are using that “proposition” as possible justification for a beat down. There is no reason for an adult male to “snap” on a child ever. That would be a solid reason then why he was arrested – child abuse and loss of control with intent to harm a child. From what was said on the show last night by Good Christian Women, a child crying when their parent said they couldn’t go to a part is viewed as rebelliousness and akin to talking back. She is supposed to tamp down her feelings and smile like he is the best father in the world for not allowing her to be with her friends. What a bunch of unrealistic hogwash. Children must be allowed to be who they are. You can listen to the recording and hear the support of him and see it all online. I read some of the responses of women on the show. Evidently this mentality that a good Christian child has no feelings and will be threatened with “stop crying before I give you something to cry about” is normalized violence in the BC.

    • Razzy says:

       @coolbreeze For all we know she could have been running her mouth etc..” 
       
      You are running your mouth off without a shred of fact.  I read the actual police report.  At the time this attack took place, Creflo Dollar went into the kitchen, and saw the 15 year old crying, he asked her “What are you crying about’.  She said, ‘She didn’t want to talk about it’.  That’s when he attacked her, choking her, slapping her, throwing her to the floor and beating her with the shoe.  So tell me in this scenario, where this girl was being ‘bad, mouthing off at him?’ 
       
      The 19 year old ran to get her mother, who came into the kitchen and saw the girl down on the floor.  The 15 year old called the police and she told them what happened verbally and in a written statement.  The 19 year old corroborated her story (separately).  The police saw scratch marks on her neck that were related to someone having been choked.  All of this is in the actual report dude.  So why are you all up in here defending Creflo Dollar’s actions and attempting to blame the victim for a grown ass man assaulting his daughter?
       
      Because YOU Coolbreeze have done the same thing.  So to make yourself feel less guilty and better you try to defend this fools egregious actions because it hits too close to what you’ve done or had done, or witnessed being done while you condoned it.  Only two reasons for you to defend Creflo.  You’ve abused before.  Or you’ve been abused yourself and have now normalized abuse as ‘oK.. either one is sad.  You should get therapy.

  8. coolbreeze says:

    We don’t really know the whole story.  Now of course there are some parents that over do the punishment thing.  For all we know the daughter may have been running her mouth being disrespectful and Creflo went upside her head. If the mother had “attacked” her daughter, would your reaction be different? I have witnessed my younger sibling get in my moms face, cuss and call her all kinds of degrading names. They would argue like cats and dogs. Things would get so bad that she had to get the police involved.  This was on a regular basis. So when you have a child like this in your home causing terror, being abusive and degrading, at some point the parent finally says enough is enough and decide to kick his/her ass. In my opinion thats when its justified.

    • Deborrah says:

       @coolbreeze Everything you said is what happened in YOUR house but that is not what happened here. So your assessment and conclusions are not right for this situation because not one word of the police report or the verbal reports by the two sisters or the mother bear out what you are saying. This was not a bad child. She merely asked if she could go to a party next week. Her dad said no. She cried because she was disappointed. That does not warrant being choked out, body slammed and pounded on with a shoe. He treated that child like she was a bitch on the street, a common whore and he was her pimp or something.
       
      There is no reason for a grown man to ever hit a child. Ever. Under any circumstances. If the girl and her mother were going at it the police should still have been called and the child removed from the home. But again, that is not what happened in THIS case.
       
      It has been interesting to me to see black folks say they don’t know what happened and they need proof, but when it comes to God they have no proof of anything yet they believe that mess all day and night. It’s funny to see how black people choose to never want to believe a woman or a female child. They get blamed and thrown under the bus every time.
       
      But you can bet like I said on the show, if I came into the kitchen and saw my husband choking or slapping or pounding on my daughter with a shoe in a rage I would definitely feel obligated to protect her as her mother, and I would tell him to stop. If he didn’t stop the next thing would be me busting him upside the head to MAKE him stop.

      • EBAYLOR says:

         @Deborrah     What Coolbreeze is describing is more normal than you think.  Youre so quick to defend this child as being a good child. You know that. Maybe she is, maybe she isnt. But in the event that she is a bad child then as a parent Mr. Dollar had every right to discipline her. Notice said dsclipline, not abuse. 

        • Deborrah says:

           @EBAYLOR What happened then is not discipline it is abuse. So why even make this statement? You don’t know that she is bad. You do know you never heard anything about that. So you all are over here making up excuses to justify Creflo’s 240 lb ass beating a 135 lb 15 year old girl like she is a hooker. There is no excuse. Proper discipline is “GO TO YOUR ROOM. YOU ARE GROUNDED UNTIL YOUR GRADES COME UP” not physical assault.

        • Razzy says:

           @EBAYLOR  @Deborrah “But in the event she is a bad child then as a parent Mr. Dollar had every right to discipline her”.
           
          Yeah, he choked, her slapped her, threw her to the ground and proceeded to beat her with a shoe, because she was crying in the kitchen.    You call this ‘discipline?  Wow.. another person who don’t know the difference between discipline and abuse.. too sad. I’ll bet if a white man had done this to this black girl, every black person would be up in arms.  But when black folks abuse black folks.. it’s discipline.

    • AndreaLewis says:

      @coolbreeze

      Why is it whenever a BM commits a violent act against a BW or girl “We don’t know the whole story”, but if a BM is attacked by a WM and we don’t know the whole story, we don’t need to?
       
      This “We don’t know the whole story” mantra is precisely why it’s becoming more and more difficult for AAs to get respect from anyone, even other Blacks from around the globe. If you’re unwilling to protect and stand up for the most helpless members of your ethnic group (women and girls) when they are harmed by the strongest members of your group (men), why should outsiders care when the strongest members of your group are hurt by an outsider? Especially when it’s apparent to all that you only want to punish White offenders who hurt the men, and don’t truly value the lives of “your own kind”.
       
      This hypocritical mindset is not just stupid, it’s dangerous and makes us ALL targets.

      • coolbreeze says:

        Because we DONT know the whole story. How do you know she didn’t flip out on her dad and he tried to restrain her? How do you know its not he say /she say? Whether it was a man that did it, a woman that did it, black , white, hispanic, young or old. The story doesn’t make sense anyway.  Who beats the hell out of their kid for whining about going to a party? My point is I can see why things may have spiraled out of control if she was being disrespectful and way out of line. None of us were there so all we can do is assume.

        • AndreaLewis says:

          @coolbreeze

          “How do you know she didn’t flip out on her dad and he tried to restrain her? ”
          ~Coolbreeze
           
          You know, I had forgotten that BM are so helpless and hapless that nothing less than aggravated assault will do when a woman or girl half their size says or does something they don’t like. LOL.
          Restraining someone does not require physical violence. The act of RESTRAINING actually prevents / stops violence. Most people are aware of this. The police don’t arrest people for stopping violence.

        • Razzy says:

           @coolbreeze Apparently you didn’t read the police report.  Why don’t you google the police report.  It is available online. I read the police report and it documents what took place.. and nowhere in the report did it say that the girl flipped out on her father.  Before you continue to comment you need to read the actual police report.

        • Razzy says:

           @coolbreeze “Who beats the hell out of their kid for whining about going to a party?”
          A controlling abusive jerk that’s who, which is what Creflo dollar proved himself to be.
           
          “My point is that I can see why things may have spiraled out of control if she was disrespectful and way out of line.”
          She is 15, he is 50, a parent who allows things to ‘spiral out of control shows he has no self control and poor parenting skills.  He is the adult here.  If he has so little self control that he allowed himself to ‘go to that place where he choked, beat and slammed that girl on the floor, that is his lack of control, his immaturity his displaying every negative trait that a responsible mature, loving parent would not show.  Stop blaming the victim here.   He’s the adult.  His job is to behave like an adult and not like some pimp thug.  His kids are not his punching bag.  And I hope to hell you don’t have any… because with all of the excuses you are making for this dude, it sounds as if you have probably crossed over the line yourself and abused your kids.  which is why you are so busy defending abuse.
           
          A real man, father, responsible mature adult would not even attempt to defend that.  But a man who has abused himself would.  So you probably are as guilty of abuse as Creflo dollar is.

        • coolbreeze says:

          I never said she flipped out on her father. I said how do we know she didn’t?  Before you comment you need to read my actual comment. Im done.

        • Razzy says:

           @coolbreeze How do you know she didn’t flip out on her dad and he tried to restrain her?”
          Because I read the police report and that was not reported.  The 19 year specifically said that the 15 year old was not fighting her father, she tried to get away from him when he attacked her.  Read the report before you start jumping on the bandwagon and defending this abuser.

        • AndreaLewis says:

           @coolbreeze Oh, I read your comment. And I quoted it exactly, question mark and all. YOU obviuosly did not read mine.

        • Razzy says:

           @coolbreeze “I never said she flipped out on her father. I said how do you know she didn’t. ”
           
          I know because i read the actual police report.  You didn’t so you are making assumptions and projections and deflecting.  What is the reason for you to be doing that?  Why play the blameshift game?
           
          Do you do this when a black man gets beaten down by white cops?  Do you say , ‘Well how do you know the black dude didn’t flip out on the cop.  of course you don’t.  You immediately throw your support (without knowing anything) behind the black guy.  Yet when it comes to violence against women and children, you inject doubt and attempt to blame shift.  You are just as abusive as Creflo, males like you who attempt to blame the victim are just as bad as the person who did the beating. 

        • Razzy says:

           @coolbreeze I’m done.
          Good one less abusive male we have to deal with on this blog.  Another Creflo worshipper.  I hope he doesn’t have kids, and if he does, I feel sorry for them especially the girls.

      • Deborrah says:

         @AndreaLewis This is very true and one of the reasons why intelligent progressive black women are pulling away from black men and have no interest in dating or marrying them. When Treyvon was gunned down black men went crazy. They didn’t know the whole story then either, but they were sure marching and posting and rallying around to condemn Zimmerman! Interesting the double standard. It’s always in the black community about protecting the interests of black males while sacrificing the lives, bodies and hearts of black women and girls in the process. Its infuriating once you are aware of the bullshit game and the sense of entitlement that black men have come to have. Black male privilege its called. I refuse to be a part of it in any way. 

        • AndreaLewis says:

           @Deborrah That is exactly right! I refuse to be the BC’s scapegoat / doormat. Let them use and discard someone else. And you’ll notice @coolbreeze didn’t respnd to my remarks about BW and girls being thrown under the bus to protect BM, nor how this behavior endangers ALL AAs, by devaluing our collective lives. Why talk about the real problem this situation brings to light when we can debate whether or not the witnesses to the alleged crime were lying on their own father.  smh. You can always count on Black folks to hide behind bullcrap to protect the menfolk.

        • Razzy says:

           @AndreaLewis  @Deborrah  @coolbreeze Dang Deborrah and Andrea I typed my response about the trayvon martin case without even first reading you guys.  We are ><  I hear ya.
           
          You better believe I won’t be supporting no nigga next time I hear about violence against black men.  I will do them the same way they do us.  “shrug’ deflect, deny, give the benefit of the doubt to the white man and be sure to say… “Well not all white men are racist and make sure I blame the black man for whatever happened to him… You know like they do women.

    • Razzy says:

       @coolbreeze We don’t really know the whole story.”
      Isn’t it interesting that when it comes to violence against women and children, especially female children black men want the whole story so that they can be satisfied that abuse actually took place.  Using this logic, do we really know the whole story with the Trayvon Martin’s case?  All we have is what uncorroborated witnesses telling their versions and assumptions, yet Trayvon a young black male gets all kinds of support from black men.
      When it comes to violence against women, there is  a double standard.  If a woman is punched, kicked slapped or raped, it’s always the ‘blame the victim mentality.  Men want ‘proof’ that ‘the woman didn’t  do anything to warrant such egregious behavior.
       
      See this is why I withdraw my support from black men.  When I hear that black men were beaten down, shot, killed, while simply being black,… I shrug and say… “Hey we don’t know the full story.  Maybe he did something to that cop.. because not all cops are racist.  He shouldn’t have been doing such and so… (fill in the blank).  I will give white people the same kind of doubt that they committed egregious acts against black men, as black men give doubt to women when women tell of the violence they suffer at the hands of black men.

    • Razzy says:

       @coolbreeze ‘We don’t know the whole story”
      We know what was reported in the police report. Something you haven’t bothered with trying to read. And you all up here defending a man for dropkicking his daughter and you haven’t even read the police report which went into detail what took place.  4 people are on that report including Creflo.

  9. THEWATCHMAN2 says:

    First of all the church is not the cause of domestic violence. That would be the people involved not the MEGA CHUCH. Second no statement have been given about how far this went. He said before his congregation this morning that the marks on her neck were 9yrs old marks. And that there was no choking or punching. BE CAREFUL ABOUT REPORT DESIGNED JUST TO GET NEILSON RATINGS, ok? ……

    • Deborrah says:

      I have read the police report, obviously you have not. Both of his daughters gave very clear statements about how far this went. There is no doubt. Even the mother saw the girl on the floor.

    • Deborrah says:

      @THEWATCHMAN2 First of all, no one said the church is the CAUSE of it, but religion definitely is used to JUSTIFY it. That is my point. Men that use their fists and words to hurt women are the sole CAUSE of domestic violence.
       
      Secondly, both daughters (the victim and the 19 year old witness) were very specific about what happened and that was why the police were called – the girls were terrified that he was not going to stop. There is no way a veteran police officer would mistake 9 year old marks for fresh scratches. He is just telling people anything because he knows his church attendees are gullible and silly and believe anything they hear from his lips.  The oldest daughter ran to get her mother because he wouldn’t stop pounding on the 15 year old who he was beating with his shoe.
       
      Lastly, internet radio shows don’t get “NIELSEN’ ratings so you need to get your facts straight. Everything you typed shows a marked lack of knowledge and understanding and makes you sound less than intelligent. .

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