If You Didn’t ‘Get’ How The Black Church Keeps Black Women Single…
My controversial article on The Black Church and the machinations used to keep single black female members alone and giving their money to the church has caused a shit storm in Black America. The article went live on this blog on Tuesday, June 14, 2010 at exactly 7:11 p.m. (PST). Within 48 hours it went viral and became THE subject of discussion on Black radio talk shows, Internet blogs, social media sites and discussion forums around the country.
Though somewhat surprised by the intensity of the debate, I am not at all shocked at the shake up the article has caused. Always a maverick and unafraid of either contentious criticism or debate, who but Deb Cooper would have the gumption to question the motives of an institution held so dear by millions of Black people across the nation? After all, if one is an avid church-goer, how likely are you to question your church on your own?
Subsequent to the controversy, my visits around the Internet to see what people have been saying about the article has been interesting. What I noticed was that many men and women read The Black Church article and got it right away; others read the words but clearly had little to no comprehension of the message. There were a lot of misunderstandings and a marked demonstration of the poor quality of education provided by school districts around the country. In other words, lots of folks don’t have a clue about what they read and a serious dearth of reading comprehension skills was demonstrated by comment posters.
It was interesting to me to read the comments both on my sites as well as other sites around the Internet, as they fell basically into three camps:
- Those that were 100% in agreement with the article without reservation. They applauded my courage to bring to light something that they’d been thinking for years but were too afraid to speak on. Many shared stories about personal experiences within the Institutional Black church that mirrored the criticisms I set out;
- Those that were in general agreement or who agreed with specific portions of the article. Many of these admitted that there were problems in the Institutional Black Church and that churches were not perfect, but they chose to defend the church due to their offense that “they weren’t like that” or that the language was too strong for their taste. Others rejected the article due to their fears of change. Many men and women questioned me about solutions to the problems I set out… what I was proposing they do instead of going to church; and
- Those that absolutely hated it because they interpreted the article to be an attempt by a demon filled Anti Christ harpy to turn every Black women in the country into man-hating lesbian atheists. Really! Some of the charges laid at my feet were based on words and concepts that were not even addressed in the article. Other readers and I were both left scratching our heads over how these folks got THAT out of the words clearly on the screen. I’ve also been called worst names this week by so-called God-fearing Christians than I have my entire life by alleged worldly sinners!
Anyway, the three camps are the reason for this follow up article. This information is directed at all those that fall into Camp 2 and 3 from us in Camp 1. I’d like to share with you some of the MEEBO chat comments, post comments, and emails (gleaned from around the web) from people that really “got it!”
Maybe after reading them, those of you that weren’t clear on underlying messages contained in what you read will “get it” too. This article is divided into nine pages; you’ll find the page numbers below the post.
Deborrah
Veteran social researcher, relationship advice columnist, author and radio host. Author of hundreds of articles on American and black culture, gender issues, singles, dating and relationships. Author of "Sucka Free Love!" , "The 24 Types of Suckas to Avoid," "The Black Church - Where Women Pray and Men Pray," and "Why Vegan is the New Black" all available on Amazon.Com. Her unique voice and insightful commentary have delighted fans and riled haters for 20 years. Read her stuff on SurvivingDating.Com and AskHeartBeat.Com.
Follow Me:
Category: The Black Church
Well I read your story and it touched my heart. Not enough men like you around and yes, there are still some women like that because of the constant abuse they endured. It’s not you, it’s a result of a lot of the hurt that she went through. You did a good thing just being there to remind her of how special she is. That’s the thing, many black women have been so mistreated, used, and abused by bad black men, they don’t even believe they are in love if there are no games involved in the relationship with a man. A lot of black men have an ulterior motive, I hate to say it, but they do. Her fears are preventing her from happines because she is basically suspect of any man now, even if her instincts tell her she is dealing with a good black man she still can’t understand a relationship without some kind of dysfunctional undertones.
I’m an Atheist, I love men and I’m part black, and I don’t want to be romantic with a female. For some reason Atheist women are stereotyped as man-hating, lesbians. I just don’t see evidence for a God! Atheist women come in a variety of different ways. I was Atheist before it was in style for blacks to become non-believers. I’ve been Atheist since I was about 8. The best thing my parents did for me was not shove religion down our throats. We were raised in a secular family.
There is so much right with the original article that I am reluctant to point out all that is wrong with it.
Like life itself the nessage is a big fat paradox. Sigh.
What can we do? Accept it? Fight against it? Agree with the parts that make sense? Ignore the ones that are blatantly wacktackular?
One thing’s for certain — I do agree that general organized religion (in this example it manifests as The Black Church) is fueled by patriarchy and marginalization. That can never be good. So in that aspect I agree with the author despite the contradictory nature of the piece.
The fact that this article highlights a patriarchal theme by encouraging a lifestyle change based on finding a man—“black women if you want to find a man leave the black church” & promotes the very boxed-in type of thinking, stereotyping and generalizations that it so fervently fights against further confirms that we are all so very lost and confused.
But you can’t blame the author for trying. Wake up calls are needed. So we should take them how we can get them.
Authoratay: “The fact that this article highlights a patriarchal theme by encouraging a lifestyle change based on finding a man—”black women if you want to find a man leave the black church” & promotes the very boxed-in type of thinking, stereotyping and generalizations that it so fervently fights against further confirms that we are all so very lost and confused.
Well women are getting the messages from their ministers to ‘wait on the Lord to show them a Godly man’ a man approved by God’ the author advocates that since so few ‘men’ are in the church and if women really want to find a mate/husband, then they need to go where the men are, and the men in church are not necessarily men that would make appropriate mates for these women. (4 types of men) (Eddie Long scandal). So this is not patriarchy here. For women who want a husband, the author is simply telling them to wake up and realize that sitting in church, praying on their knees, waiting on the Lord to ‘lead’ a husband to them will not get them what they want.
THANKYA.
WoW,, I’m a brotha that’s feeling this issue. I was involved with one of those sistas that went to church, bible study, spitted scripture like Tupac did lyrics, was single, three years out of an emoyional/physical abusive marriage with the church-going brotha and in the end she could only say ‘she wasn’t feeling it in regards to me chasing her with love and respect.
In her church that I attended while we were together, it is full of single marrying age sistas, many with children and the preacher was surely indoctrinating them on waiting for God to send you a good man that is husband material and that he would be a man of the church. A church with little to no single men of marrying age. I stopped going to the catholic church in which I have always gone, to be with her at her church.
I’m old school so I asked her father if I could take out his daughter, I asked her brother because she asked me to, she works hard and plays the role a husband should play. She takes care of her sister who won’t work, and her two kids, she mows the lawn, shovels the snow, buys the groceries, washes the clothes and dishes, pays the mortgage,,, and her sister knowing she’s a church going God fearing woman keeps quoting scriptures to her; keeping her in a sort of la-la land trance whereas she won’t tell het to be an adult and get a J.O.B. When we were together I mowed the lawn, cleaned the gutters, took her out because she needed some time to feel special. She has a business and I bought more from her in three months than her 1000 congregation church does in a year. I was consistent to always buy from her every two weeks whereas her pastor and his wife rarely bought anything; but she would shell out that dedicated percent each time she got paid. A look at the church financials showed they only had $4000 in the bank which stunned me because this is a church full of the Black well-to-do. Heck, this one girl tithes more than $3600 a year!
I asked her to get a merchants account so she could take credit card orders when a pharmicutical salesman said he could get her a lot of business, but she said she didn’t have the money. It was $25/mth and she is shelling out $400/mth to a church that only asks so they can get a wide screen on the wall, and other stuff that has nothing to do with building (re-building) the low-income community that surrounds it. Fact is she has no room for a relationship between taking care of her sister and her kids, church, bible study and work. I sent flower to her job to brighten up her day on a bi-weekly basis, bought her gift certificates for massages that could last 4 or 5 month ay a time because she works hard,,, but she always compared me to the ex-husband as if I was going to be like him. She lost all three of the children during pregnancy and I think having her sisters kids around fills a void now that she is a bit too old to have them. No fear of coming home after work to an empty house. No fear of laying down at night to a quiet/empty house. And ger sister don’t want change because sge can be a stay home mom.
I asked her is she’s a person that sleeps in one place in her bed or if she’s a wild sleeper and she says she stays in one place. She says its a King-sized bed and I picture a woman laying in a King-sized bed; alone every night, whereas a King (her King) should be laying next to her. Who can you cry to on a lonely night? I know you can pray to God, but I just don’t understand how one can go to such a church where the preacher is not addressing the issue that God plans for men and women to be as one in a loving, respectful marriage. That’s my belief.
I’ve tried to let go of this woman but I’m a fool that believes in time she will come to see I’m a good decent man that can and will love her deeply til my end of times. Many brothas would have bounced already, gone elsewhere and many already have/date many at a time. So many sistas with nice jobs, clothes, degrees, cars, homes/apt, driving around with a child seat but having no man to share life with. What a shame. In my job I help single mothers on welfare get skills, training and employment, advocate in the community where pastors don’t, work with youth involved in the court system (most from single women-head of household homes), help men and women become entrepreneurs… I believe I am doing Gods work and living what he planned for me, but it doesn’t seem good enough.
I want a Black woman as my mate; although I could have been with others outside of Black many times. But, while they waiting for so-called men like me, they waiting deep into their 40’s. And the pastor goes home a lays down not alone dreaming up the next message to deliver to rgese sisters seeking something?
If the conversation is only about people who are dead, times of thousands of years ago, words that only prepare you for death,, then how can one really live and think in the here and now?
Wow Will what a post, so sad that so many women allow themselves to be pimped by the ‘institution of organized religion ‘The Church’ and don’t see how it adversely affects their personal lives.
Great article, Ms. Cooper!! Teaching fear, stupidity, group think keeps people from self agency.
Deborrah, I commend you for having the courage to speak on this topic. Reading the comments, I am saddened by the number of women who felt the same as you, especially those who have left church.
Church should always be a place that edifys and encourages women to discover who they are in Christ. There is nothing worse than a church or pastor that uses the name of Jesus to lower the self-esteem of women or try to deny them a blessing that God has for them, in this case, a husband.
Not every church intends to make a woman submissive so they can dominate all of her time and money. The church I attend is most certainly not like this, but it took me 10 years and alot of heartache to find it.
I am going to pray for these sisters, that if it is their will and God’s will, that they find a group of Christians who will support and encourage them to become the women that God wants them to be.
God bless you!
deborrah,
as a very happily engaged non-believer, i want to thank you for this article.
the brainwashed baptist myrmidons of my family continue to “pray for my salvation” while i choose to think critically, act responsibly, and enjoy life on my own terms. mind you, these same god-fearing (adults who embrace teachings of fear? the height of stupidity and groupthink…) christian relatives wring their hands over my agnosticism yet lavish praise on their crack-addicted and/or OOW baby-popping offspring.
because, you know, they got jesus and all so they’re cool.
GREAT ARTICLE!!!
I did it all. Went to church 3 x a week or more, believed in the power of god, prayed a lot, etc. What I got was a good looking, single brother (one of the VERY few in our congregation), who was gay and screwing another brother from the same congregation. There were always a lot of sisters in my congregation “fighting” over the slim pickings.Usually the few available brother’s married the “prettiest” ones (read: lightest skinned, “good” hair).
I gave up religion long ago, went to college, became an atheist, been married to one of the best men (also atheist) on the planet for over 11 years. My sister and former girlfriends are still going to church, depressed, lonely, and praying for relief from a variety of issues that have not(or rarely) been resolved.
Deb, we need more people like you telling it like it is. A lot of “us” just can’t handle the truth.If a lot more “sisters” embraced the truth, they’d leave the church, and church would loose all that money.
My heart goes out to the comments of the atheists And Stephani, and other individuals that made the statement about her relatives having issues and problems and you and your husband living an atheist life style thinking that you are escaping problems… Let me tap you lightly in your mind… Your problems are just building up and it is going to be a crying shame when they all explode at one time in your face. Now, the difference between a person being saved, born-again, is we are forgiven by the one and only creator of the ends of this earth you and I live on and breathe in… JESUS CHRIST, our LORD and SAVIOR.. Yes, problems come our way, but baby you just don’t understand that this is not about flesh and blood, this is a spiritual battle, not fought with weapons that man made but is unseen and if you do not have The Lord Jesus Christ on your side, you are not going to get too far. I pray that the Lord, Jesus Christ shows you who he really is, and that you will accept him as your personal savior, because it’s not all about YOU! IT’s All About JESUS!!!! Amen, Amen, Amen..
No, its NOT all about Jesus. It’s about us as people and the spiritual power that we have within us. We each have the power to manifest our dreams irrespective of religious beliefs. It is difficult for people of logic and reason to ascribe to the belief of a dead White man saving anyone when he couldn’t even save himself. That concept is completely ridiculous and illogical, so those that do not believe in that theory have no interest in the boogey man theory of happily ever after.
And the second thing is if you have never done any wild crazy stupid stuff in your life, you don’t NEED to be “saved”. That is only people that acted a fool, cut up, did a bunch of insane things in their youth. They get older and start worrying about dying and so they run to church and get “saved” by a bunch of other useless sinners and liars that also cut up, acted a fool, and did a bunch of insane things in their youth.
LOLOL!! Yall kill me with this Jesus stuff.
Deborah,
I tried responding to an earlier blog regarding your article; it didn’t work. After reading your current blog I am more than convinced that what I wrote holds true. This is not a race issue , but an issue of Christian teachings. This is church dogma. I spent 35+ years as a “faithful believer”. This unyielding belief caused me to remain for 25 years in an unsatisfactory, if not emotionally abusive marriage. Although I am white, I truly believe that the same problem is occurring in all churches and unfortunately It is the age old practice of putting women “in their place.” After all wasn’t it Eve who caused mankind to “fall from grace” ? I have experienced it and I have witnessed it. I won’t bore you with the Biblical references, which are mostly from the epistles of Paul. I have a friend who only became a Christian because of the teaching that a Christian is not to be “yoked to a non believer.” Sadly enough, this is happening not only in Christianity, but in other misogynistic cultures. Keep up the good work!
yeah. cosigning. I was raised in the white church by codependent mom (well, she was independent, but thought that almost every relationship was a mission from god, and to this day my father has trouble telling me that behavior that mirrors his 1st 30 years is jackassery and to dump the jerk), but believe me, “I kissed dating goodbye” had more of an impact on me than anything T.D. Jakes or Fred Price had do say. It’s this “jesus is magic” to quote Sarah Silverman, thing. It’s a horrifying plot to keep women from having sex outside of marriage that backfires and keeps her from having marriage, or, if she actually listens and believes hard and fast enough, “WANTING marriage.” it is effed up beyond belief.
I get it because this isn’t limited to Black churches. It’s pervasive in white evangelical churches, too! I went to a non-denominational megachurch for four years and heard all about the kind of man I was supposed to look for. You didn’t dare date a non-Christian. The list of must-haves and should-haves was endless. But in a church of +4,000 people, there were only 3 or 4 single men in their 40s who even came to church. Who knew if they had all the qualities they were supposed to have? We were also told over and over again that we were not to ask men out or do ANYTHING to initiate a relationship. We were simply to pray and “wait on God’s timing.” If we tried to do something about our singleness we would be “out of God’s perfect will” for us.
After four years of this brainwashing, I finally realized something one night. I hadn’t lost 66 pounds by sitting around and praying for it. I started a diet and when that didn’t work, I went to Weight Watchers. I didn’t get a new job because I sat and prayed. I updated my resume and portfolio, responded to ads, went to interviews and get a new job. In other words, I got up and DID something!
And so should ALL women who want to find a mate. Faith without works is dead. Get to work!
Can the church get an AMEN!!!
you said it the best! Thank you for this light bulb moment.
Hi:
In response to ur article, I want to comment and say that God works through those that help themselves. We arent just supposed to literally sit around like, “Ok, God. I’m sitting waiting on u to bless me with what my heart desires. The initiative you took in achieving the things u wanted was God helping you. Yes, u chose to start doing what u wanted to do to get what what u wanted, however, God is working through u and your efforts. It’s like the old saying goes…God helps those that helps themselves. That diet u started, the resume u updated and got that new job..that’s absolutely wonderful and congrats to u but what I’m saying is God helped u because u helped yourself. We can’t take the credit for our blessing because He is our maker and knows us from when were in the womb. Know that everything u accomplish, u worked hard for it yes, but God also saw that and blessed u to get it!
Fashionique:“We can’t take the credit for our blessing because He is our maker and knows us from when were in the womb. Know that everything u accomplish, u worked hard for it yes, but God also saw that and blessed u to get it!”
Not everyone shares the belief that they can only do something in life if ‘God helped them to do it’.
That is what YOU say. I say I did it on my own and God had nothing to do with it. The weakness that Black people express when they blame everything on God – whether it is good or bad – just infuriates me. Black people have been trained to think that they have no personal power, no ability to make a difference on their own. They NEED God in everything. I just shake my head. You all have been sold a bill of goods by your slave masters and you STILL KEEP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. Running up in church three or four times every week and quoting from that collection of fairy tales you call The Bible.