If You Didn’t ‘Get’ How The Black Church Keeps Black Women Single…

| 07/04/2010 | Comments (59)

My controversial article on The Black Church and the machinations used to keep single black female members alone and giving their money to the church has caused a shit storm in Black America. The article went live on this blog on Tuesday, June 14, 2010 at exactly 7:11 p.m. (PST).  Within 48 hours it went viral and became THE subject of discussion on Black radio talk shows, Internet blogs, social media sites and discussion forums around the country.

Though somewhat surprised by the intensity of the debate, I am not at all shocked at the shake up the article has caused.  Always a maverick and unafraid of either contentious criticism or debate, who but Deb Cooper would have the gumption to question the motives of an institution held so dear by millions of Black people across the nation?  After all, if one is an avid church-goer, how likely are you to question your church on your own?

Subsequent to the controversy, my visits around the Internet to see what people have been saying about the article has been interesting. What I noticed was that many men and women read The Black Church article and got it right away; others read the words but clearly had little to no comprehension of the message. There were a lot of misunderstandings and a marked demonstration of the poor quality of education provided by school districts around the country. In other words, lots of folks don’t have a clue about what they read and a serious dearth of reading comprehension skills was demonstrated by comment posters.

It was interesting to me to read the comments both on my sites as well as other sites around the Internet, as they fell basically into three camps:

  1. Those that were 100% in agreement with the article without reservation. They applauded my courage to bring to light something that they’d been thinking for years but were too afraid to speak on. Many shared stories about personal experiences within the Institutional Black church that mirrored the criticisms I set out;
  2. Those that were in general agreement or who agreed with specific portions of the article.  Many of these admitted that there were problems in the Institutional Black Church and that churches were not perfect, but they chose to defend the church due to their offense that “they weren’t like that” or that the language was too strong for their taste. Others rejected the article due to their fears of change. Many men and women questioned me about solutions to the problems I set out… what I was proposing they do instead of going to church; and
  3. Those that absolutely hated it because they interpreted the article to be an attempt by a demon filled Anti Christ harpy to turn every Black women in the country into man-hating lesbian atheists. Really! Some of the charges laid at my feet were based on words and concepts that were not even addressed in the article.  Other readers and I were both left scratching our heads over how these folks got THAT out of the words clearly on the screen.  I’ve also been called worst names this week by so-called God-fearing Christians than I have my entire life by alleged worldly sinners!

Anyway, the three camps are the reason for this follow up article. This information is directed at all those that fall into Camp 2 and 3 from us in Camp 1. I’d like to share with you some of the MEEBO chat comments, post comments, and emails (gleaned from around the web) from people that really “got it!”

Maybe after reading them, those of you that weren’t clear on underlying messages contained in what you read will “get it” too.  This article is divided into nine pages; you’ll find the page numbers below the post.

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...

Deborrah

Veteran social researcher, relationship advice columnist, author and radio host. Author of hundreds of articles on American and black culture, gender issues, singles, dating and relationships. Author of "Sucka Free Love!" , "The 24 Types of Suckas to Avoid," and "The Black Church - Where Women Pray and Men Pray" all available on Amazon.Com. Her unique voice and insightful commentary have delighted fans and riled haters for 20 years. Read her stuff on Examiner.Com, SurvivingDating.Com and AskHeartBeat.Com.

More Posts - Website

Follow Me:
TwitterFacebookPinterestGoogle PlusYouTube

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Tags: , , , , , , , ,

Category: The Black Church

59 comments
swirlygirl
swirlygirl

I'm an Atheist, I love men and I'm part black, and I don't want to be romantic with a female. For some reason Atheist women are stereotyped as man-hating, lesbians. I just don't see evidence for a God! Atheist women come in a variety of different ways. I was Atheist before it was in style for blacks to become non-believers. I've been Atheist since I was about 8. The best thing my parents did for me was not shove religion down our throats. We were raised in a secular family.

Authoratay
Authoratay

There is so much right with the original article that I am reluctant to point out all that is wrong with it.

Like life itself the nessage is a big fat paradox. Sigh.

What can we do? Accept it? Fight against it? Agree with the parts that make sense? Ignore the ones that are blatantly wacktackular?

One thing's for certain -- I do agree that general organized religion (in this example it manifests as The Black Church) is fueled by patriarchy and marginalization. That can never be good. So in that aspect I agree with the author despite the contradictory nature of the piece.

The fact that this article highlights a patriarchal theme by encouraging a lifestyle change based on finding a man---"black women if you want to find a man leave the black church" & promotes the very boxed-in type of thinking, stereotyping and generalizations that it so fervently fights against further confirms that we are all so very lost and confused.

But you can't blame the author for trying. Wake up calls are needed. So we should take them how we can get them.

Will Gray
Will Gray

WoW,, I'm a brotha that's feeling this issue. I was involved with one of those sistas that went to church, bible study, spitted scripture like Tupac did lyrics, was single, three years out of an emoyional/physical abusive marriage with the church-going brotha and in the end she could only say 'she wasn't feeling it in regards to me chasing her with love and respect.

In her church that I attended while we were together, it is full of single marrying age sistas, many with children and the preacher was surely indoctrinating them on waiting for God to send you a good man that is husband material and that he would be a man of the church. A church with little to no single men of marrying age. I stopped going to the catholic church in which I have always gone, to be with her at her church.

I'm old school so I asked her father if I could take out his daughter, I asked her brother because she asked me to, she works hard and plays the role a husband should play. She takes care of her sister who won't work, and her two kids, she mows the lawn, shovels the snow, buys the groceries, washes the clothes and dishes, pays the mortgage,,, and her sister knowing she's a church going God fearing woman keeps quoting scriptures to her; keeping her in a sort of la-la land trance whereas she won't tell het to be an adult and get a J.O.B. When we were together I mowed the lawn, cleaned the gutters, took her out because she needed some time to feel special. She has a business and I bought more from her in three months than her 1000 congregation church does in a year. I was consistent to always buy from her every two weeks whereas her pastor and his wife rarely bought anything; but she would shell out that dedicated percent each time she got paid. A look at the church financials showed they only had $4000 in the bank which stunned me because this is a church full of the Black well-to-do. Heck, this one girl tithes more than $3600 a year!

I asked her to get a merchants account so she could take credit card orders when a pharmicutical salesman said he could get her a lot of business, but she said she didn't have the money. It was $25/mth and she is shelling out $400/mth to a church that only asks so they can get a wide screen on the wall, and other stuff that has nothing to do with building (re-building) the low-income community that surrounds it. Fact is she has no room for a relationship between taking care of her sister and her kids, church, bible study and work. I sent flower to her job to brighten up her day on a bi-weekly basis, bought her gift certificates for massages that could last 4 or 5 month ay a time because she works hard,,, but she always compared me to the ex-husband as if I was going to be like him. She lost all three of the children during pregnancy and I think having her sisters kids around fills a void now that she is a bit too old to have them. No fear of coming home after work to an empty house. No fear of laying down at night to a quiet/empty house. And ger sister don't want change because sge can be a stay home mom.

I asked her is she's a person that sleeps in one place in her bed or if she's a wild sleeper and she says she stays in one place. She says its a King-sized bed and I picture a woman laying in a King-sized bed; alone every night, whereas a King (her King) should be laying next to her. Who can you cry to on a lonely night? I know you can pray to God, but I just don't understand how one can go to such a church where the preacher is not addressing the issue that God plans for men and women to be as one in a loving, respectful marriage. That's my belief.

I've tried to let go of this woman but I'm a fool that believes in time she will come to see I'm a good decent man that can and will love her deeply til my end of times. Many brothas would have bounced already, gone elsewhere and many already have/date many at a time. So many sistas with nice jobs, clothes, degrees, cars, homes/apt, driving around with a child seat but having no man to share life with. What a shame. In my job I help single mothers on welfare get skills, training and employment, advocate in the community where pastors don't, work with youth involved in the court system (most from single women-head of household homes), help men and women become entrepreneurs... I believe I am doing Gods work and living what he planned for me, but it doesn't seem good enough.

I want a Black woman as my mate; although I could have been with others outside of Black many times. But, while they waiting for so-called men like me, they waiting deep into their 40's. And the pastor goes home a lays down not alone dreaming up the next message to deliver to rgese sisters seeking something?

If the conversation is only about people who are dead, times of thousands of years ago, words that only prepare you for death,, then how can one really live and think in the here and now?

Simon
Simon

Great article, Ms. Cooper!! Teaching fear, stupidity, group think keeps people from self agency.

Verlinda
Verlinda

Deborrah, I commend you for having the courage to speak on this topic. Reading the comments, I am saddened by the number of women who felt the same as you, especially those who have left church.

Church should always be a place that edifys and encourages women to discover who they are in Christ. There is nothing worse than a church or pastor that uses the name of Jesus to lower the self-esteem of women or try to deny them a blessing that God has for them, in this case, a husband.

Not every church intends to make a woman submissive so they can dominate all of her time and money. The church I attend is most certainly not like this, but it took me 10 years and alot of heartache to find it.

I am going to pray for these sisters, that if it is their will and God's will, that they find a group of Christians who will support and encourage them to become the women that God wants them to be.

God bless you!

stephanie
stephanie

deborrah,

as a very happily engaged non-believer, i want to thank you for this article.

the brainwashed baptist myrmidons of my family continue to "pray for my salvation" while i choose to think critically, act responsibly, and enjoy life on my own terms. mind you, these same god-fearing (adults who embrace teachings of fear? the height of stupidity and groupthink...) christian relatives wring their hands over my agnosticism yet lavish praise on their crack-addicted and/or OOW baby-popping offspring.

because, you know, they got jesus and all so they're cool.

Rational Woman
Rational Woman

GREAT ARTICLE!!!

I did it all. Went to church 3 x a week or more, believed in the power of god, prayed a lot, etc. What I got was a good looking, single brother (one of the VERY few in our congregation), who was gay and screwing another brother from the same congregation. There were always a lot of sisters in my congregation "fighting" over the slim pickings.Usually the few available brother's married the "prettiest" ones (read: lightest skinned, "good" hair).

I gave up religion long ago, went to college, became an atheist, been married to one of the best men (also atheist) on the planet for over 11 years. My sister and former girlfriends are still going to church, depressed, lonely, and praying for relief from a variety of issues that have not(or rarely) been resolved.

Deb, we need more people like you telling it like it is. A lot of "us" just can't handle the truth.If a lot more "sisters" embraced the truth, they'd leave the church, and church would loose all that money.

Darlene
Darlene

Deborah,
I tried responding to an earlier blog regarding your article; it didn't work. After reading your current blog I am more than convinced that what I wrote holds true. This is not a race issue , but an issue of Christian teachings. This is church dogma. I spent 35+ years as a "faithful believer". This unyielding belief caused me to remain for 25 years in an unsatisfactory, if not emotionally abusive marriage. Although I am white, I truly believe that the same problem is occurring in all churches and unfortunately It is the age old practice of putting women "in their place." After all wasn't it Eve who caused mankind to "fall from grace" ? I have experienced it and I have witnessed it. I won't bore you with the Biblical references, which are mostly from the epistles of Paul. I have a friend who only became a Christian because of the teaching that a Christian is not to be "yoked to a non believer." Sadly enough, this is happening not only in Christianity, but in other misogynistic cultures. Keep up the good work!

TLC
TLC

I get it because this isn't limited to Black churches. It's pervasive in white evangelical churches, too! I went to a non-denominational megachurch for four years and heard all about the kind of man I was supposed to look for. You didn't dare date a non-Christian. The list of must-haves and should-haves was endless. But in a church of +4,000 people, there were only 3 or 4 single men in their 40s who even came to church. Who knew if they had all the qualities they were supposed to have? We were also told over and over again that we were not to ask men out or do ANYTHING to initiate a relationship. We were simply to pray and "wait on God's timing." If we tried to do something about our singleness we would be "out of God's perfect will" for us.

After four years of this brainwashing, I finally realized something one night. I hadn't lost 66 pounds by sitting around and praying for it. I started a diet and when that didn't work, I went to Weight Watchers. I didn't get a new job because I sat and prayed. I updated my resume and portfolio, responded to ads, went to interviews and get a new job. In other words, I got up and DID something!

And so should ALL women who want to find a mate. Faith without works is dead. Get to work!

Les
Les

Ms. Cooper, you are right on target. In fact, I just printed out your article to include in folders for my focus group on Sunday. I am writing an anthology and will reach out to you to include your article in the book. I abandoned the black church a few years ago. It's so much BS that goes on in these churches, and frankly, I wasn't doing anything but falling asleep. I have been hearing the same ole tired messages since I was a little girl. Nothing changes. Every man that ever broke my heart was in the church. So I no longer have the requirement that he has to be in a church. Hell, most of the good guys I know ARE NOT in the church. I have broadened my horizons! You go girl! And keep those articles coming!

2Peace
2Peace

Ms. Cooper,
Sorry, but do not pat yourself on the back too much. I read the original article and I watched the clip of the minister.
What could be soooo wrong with what he said??
He's simply encouraging women to not "be soooo easy"! That's it. No WOMAN should give her precious gifts (her "goodies & benefits" as I like to call them) to any man UNLESS SHE KNOWS FOR SURE that that man is going to give his all to her. Yes, his very life. What could be wrong with that?? If the modern day woman could see that, many of the present-day relationship problems would diminish.

It seems as though now in these, the early days of the 21st century, some blacks want to graduate from the one institution that's helped us the most--the Church, supposedly in the name of progress. How disrespectful that is to our history!

Take a walk down the memory lane of African American history. What did Phillis Wheatley, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Fredrick Douglass, Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Carter G. Woodson, Martin Luther King (plus many more) have in common?

A deep abiding faith in Christ that gave them true courage to stand up against evil, injustice, and the like. Now, although the American church in general has a lot of deep problems, it is not solely responsible for the current state of male/female relationships in this culture. Women of other ethnicities are singing the same tune of the struggles to find a good man--but they ain't blaming the Church for it.

QuiLe
QuiLe

I agree with the video and the article (if I can actually do that!). From the video, I felt that he was trying to tell women not to be so easy. What I have learned in life is that men like the chase. So when women become so presistent about getting a man it really turns the men off. I know the speaker in the video was coming from a spiritual point of view but all he was saying is take your time, wait, and not be so fast at trying to get a man on your own-Let the man chase you.
On the other hand, I do agree with the article because all of the "Church Stuff" that women involve themselves in prevents them from having the time and availability to meet single men who may be interested in them. As a single black woman myself, actively involved in the church I attend...waiting for that special someone can get a little old, especially when all the churches I have attended the men are old, already married, or seem a little on the feminine side! I do feel that Pastors take advantage of single women (or any woman for that matter) because we get so caught up in things and do not know how to get out. We become so committed in everything we do with our emotional selves! It seems that Pastors take advantage of those emotions, use them against us in their sermons, and even holds us in a sense of bondage (because we become to emotional to leave).Resulting in other issues: home, family, friends being neglected (even neglecting ourselves).

Afua Boahene
Afua Boahene

Deborah--First of all I want to thank you for your article. As an African-American women who has been church-ed all my life and lead to believe to wait on Mr. Right to show up in church, I appreciate the candor with which you have written your article. I myself have begun to feel frustrated by church doctrine that I feel is limiting, especially to women of color. My most recent blog post addresses the church, women of color, romance, and relationships. Please check it out at smelodyiva.wordpress.com. I would love to get your feedback and ideas. I look forward to hearing from you.--Afua

feenixreising
feenixreising

Oh my God (no pun intended). I am feeling this!!

Tami
Tami

I listened to Michael Baisden yesterday...I enjoyed the show...Looked you up on the internet...I used to be religious, but now I only go to church when I feel the need. I know a lot of women who feel that men who go to church are better than other men...No matter how hard I try to tell them that a man is a man. Just because he goes to church doesn't mean anything. I have met good men at the bar, at the gym...It doesn't matter...Thank you for the article...Lots of people won't agree, but then again, lots of people will.

Technodiva
Technodiva

I read this article with great sadness in my heart. Some of what Ms. Cooper says is true but to be a journalist, there surely isn't a lot of objectivity in the article. Ms. Cooper, you said you visited lots of churches across the country. Great, all you could come up with is that weird, weak, opportunistic, slimy or recovering men go to church every week. What a shame your mind couldn't be more open. I have attended church regulary for the last 25 years and have seen some of everything inclluding lonely, single women and happily married ones. I met my husband at a Bible Study and he is no loser. To substantiate your point, we did find that the Bible Study turned out to be a bad situation with the controlling elements you spoke of, so we left. We found another church that did effectively teach the Bible and demanded that we read it for ourselves and not just take the word of the one up front. Good thing, but I already knew to do that. There were some nice men in that church, strong, independent thinkers and some losers. It takes all kinds...besides, a good church is a hospital for those who need healing. And then those people get stronger and become productive memnbers of society. You sound as though you have some secret axe to grind and you're trying to camouflage it with lopsided facts, statss and bitter sounding rhetoric. I feel sadness for anyone who absolutely agrees with your views and anyone too mad to see some validity, too. Nevertheless, I pray for you.

Angela
Angela

THANK YOU for writing the TRUTH!!! I don't care WHO speaks negatively against what you said, I have LIVED it! I married one of those "Bible-toting-church-abiding-dysfunctional men" in order to not sin and commit fornication. I literally quickly married someone I knew nothing about and remained married for many miserable years to prove that "Christian" marriages work.Our foolishness was perpetuated by a belief system imposed in our church that as long as we both were 'saved' things would work out.

I see young ladies making this same mistake over and over; marrying to please the judgments of church people...some of them who wish THEY were FREE (single) too!Church does not replace or cover up what we personally lack in social skills, family disconnectedness,educational sufficiency or financial unpreparedness. But it DOES in some circles create a false hope that these deficits can be overlooked with 'faith.' Hmmmmm...not so!

When my children became older and began questioning my beliefs that they saw made little or no sense, I began to become TRUTHFUL with MYSELF and THEM. We DISCUSS what we hear in church and I hear them out. I do NOT want them to be blind followers of cultural burdens and spiritual misinformation that creates confusion, unnecessary life stalling or unhappiness.

Again, THANK YOU!!!!!

D. Angela
D. Angela

Words aren't enough to express my thankfulness to Ms. Cooper on writing these articles regarding Black Women remaining single while being 'faithful' to their Black churches. Since I divorced my "Bible toting church abiding minister man" while my children were still young, I was a divorced single mom for most of their upbringing.

Problems became evident when my children were older and would challenge me on my beliefs that they saw little to no evidence as making any sense. Why was their beautiful, intelligent mother not the 'catch' of some other 'saved' man? And if mom and dad were 'saved' why were they divorced?

Your article hit it right on the head. I married one of those dysfunctional church going type men in an attempt to be obedient to scriptures and not commit fornication. I married someone I barely knew, stuck it out for 13 miserable years (I'd had his children and wanted to prove that a Christian marriage works) then left and I must say I have been MUCH happier since leaving that relationship.

I see this behavior repeated over and over by young Christian women who get married to appease the other churchgoers, not knowing that some of these people wish THEY were FREE, (unmarried) too! Our ministers don't want to know us; they want our attendance so THEY can look GOOD and WE can give them our MONEY!!! They could care less about the conditions of our families as we repeat relationship errors from outdated mandates that do not work!!!!!

mo
mo

So what if the 'black' woman started attending the 'white' church, would that suffice...since it seems like the 'black' church is the problem? Any findings on that scenario?...or what if the black church has a female pastor, will the black woman come out right? Is the issue finding a man or fixing the church...or educating the black, GROWN woman who has no excuse to be ignorant?

Jessica
Jessica

I do consider myself a Christian, yet I was always taught that this meant living in a Christ-like way. Christ was all about helping those who most need it, uplifting the "outcasts" in society and equality between men and women.

Historically it was not until the 3rd and 4th centuries that we see rigid gender roles emerge. This is around the same time the Christian religion began to exhibit largely Hellenistic values and values that reflected early Roman culture. This occurred when Constantine adopted Christian as the state religion of the Roman Empire, yet cultural values still influenced people's ideas and behavior.

When one considers the fact that "religions" have always been tailored to further one's own agenda; it makes seen why the bible proclaims that women be in a inferior position. If the bible supports patriarchy under God, then of course women will not question their position in society.

Yet, people must remember that the bible has been re-interpreted and translated. Even today if one were to pick up two different version of the bible one could interpret in two completely different ways depending on how it is written.

Yvonne
Yvonne

Great article and I got the memo years ago on this one. There are four things that get most black women all riled up and angry: religion, hair, Dark skin Vs Light skin and interracial dating.

I said this a while back about the black church and never really waited around to read the comments nor care about what was said, but the black church could have falling a long time ago if it wasn't for the black woman. They don't question their roles in one of the worlds biggest social organizations because that's all it is today, a community club. There's not much that they do in any communities but fill their own pockets and live lavish lifestyles while most of their congregations live in poverty.

They don't serve a purpose, they come to only fleece their flocks. I can no longer support any type of religious organization that attempts to brain wash me with lies. The same religious doctrine that was used to hold African slaves in bondage is the same one used to control and oppress their progeny. If Christianity is suppose to be about love, in my 50 years on this earth I have never seen any of it to come from those who claim to be one. All I've ever seen is hatred and judgment against anyone who doesn't believe in what has been taught to them or thinks differently.

How are black women going to say they love Jesus, who is often depicted as a white man, when they claim to not be interested in dating men from different ethnic backgrounds? That's the problem, so many of them are dating Jesus in the meantime and when the right one comes along Jesus will be abandoned.

Many pastors don't live in the neighborhoods that their churches are located in. How you going to serve the people when you don't live among them? I believe in a higher power, but I don't believe in mans version of who and what a God is and quite frankly never have. How is anyone going to judge another human being when they ain't right within???

Deborrah, the truth hurts and I've realized that the majority of black people to include black women cannot handle or tolerate the truth when it's staring them dead in the face. Keep speaking your truth and all of these so called relationship experts on websites are doing nothing but pimping these women also in hopes of selling their forthcoming books. They claim feminism in one breath and on the next they feel that they're nothing without a man to share their lives with, no wonder why the majority of them are confused.

Religion places women in second and third class citizenship, one in which many are gladly to be a part due to their religious indoctrination on the roles they should play in a patriarchal society. That's why women are so easily influenced to spend their hard earned money due to low self-esteems because they are indoctrinated with the belief that it's all about the superficial and never the heart of an individual.

The majority of women don't know their worth and never will just as long as it's measured by having youthful looks, money, and a husband. Thank you Miss Cooper!

Raz
Raz

Authoratay: "The fact that this article highlights a patriarchal theme by encouraging a lifestyle change based on finding a man—”black women if you want to find a man leave the black church” & promotes the very boxed-in type of thinking, stereotyping and generalizations that it so fervently fights against further confirms that we are all so very lost and confused.

Well women are getting the messages from their ministers to 'wait on the Lord to show them a Godly man' a man approved by God' the author advocates that since so few 'men' are in the church and if women really want to find a mate/husband, then they need to go where the men are, and the men in church are not necessarily men that would make appropriate mates for these women. (4 types of men) (Eddie Long scandal). So this is not patriarchy here. For women who want a husband, the author is simply telling them to wake up and realize that sitting in church, praying on their knees, waiting on the Lord to 'lead' a husband to them will not get them what they want.

swirlygirl
swirlygirl

Well I read your story and it touched my heart. Not enough men like you around and yes, there are still some women like that because of the constant abuse they endured. It's not you, it's a result of a lot of the hurt that she went through. You did a good thing just being there to remind her of how special she is. That's the thing, many black women have been so mistreated, used, and abused by bad black men, they don't even believe they are in love if there are no games involved in the relationship with a man. A lot of black men have an ulterior motive, I hate to say it, but they do. Her fears are preventing her from happines because she is basically suspect of any man now, even if her instincts tell her she is dealing with a good black man she still can't understand a relationship without some kind of dysfunctional undertones.

Raz
Raz

Wow Will what a post, so sad that so many women allow themselves to be pimped by the 'institution of organized religion 'The Church' and don't see how it adversely affects their personal lives.

All God
All God

My heart goes out to the comments of the atheists And Stephani, and other individuals that made the statement about her relatives having issues and problems and you and your husband living an atheist life style thinking that you are escaping problems... Let me tap you lightly in your mind... Your problems are just building up and it is going to be a crying shame when they all explode at one time in your face. Now, the difference between a person being saved, born-again, is we are forgiven by the one and only creator of the ends of this earth you and I live on and breathe in... JESUS CHRIST, our LORD and SAVIOR.. Yes, problems come our way, but baby you just don't understand that this is not about flesh and blood, this is a spiritual battle, not fought with weapons that man made but is unseen and if you do not have The Lord Jesus Christ on your side, you are not going to get too far. I pray that the Lord, Jesus Christ shows you who he really is, and that you will accept him as your personal savior, because it's not all about YOU! IT's All About JESUS!!!! Amen, Amen, Amen..

Kayle
Kayle

yeah. cosigning. I was raised in the white church by codependent mom (well, she was independent, but thought that almost every relationship was a mission from god, and to this day my father has trouble telling me that behavior that mirrors his 1st 30 years is jackassery and to dump the jerk), but believe me, "I kissed dating goodbye" had more of an impact on me than anything T.D. Jakes or Fred Price had do say. It's this "jesus is magic" to quote Sarah Silverman, thing. It's a horrifying plot to keep women from having sex outside of marriage that backfires and keeps her from having marriage, or, if she actually listens and believes hard and fast enough, "WANTING marriage." it is effed up beyond belief.

Fashionique
Fashionique

Hi:

In response to ur article, I want to comment and say that God works through those that help themselves. We arent just supposed to literally sit around like, "Ok, God. I'm sitting waiting on u to bless me with what my heart desires. The initiative you took in achieving the things u wanted was God helping you. Yes, u chose to start doing what u wanted to do to get what what u wanted, however, God is working through u and your efforts. It's like the old saying goes...God helps those that helps themselves. That diet u started, the resume u updated and got that new job..that's absolutely wonderful and congrats to u but what I'm saying is God helped u because u helped yourself. We can't take the credit for our blessing because He is our maker and knows us from when were in the womb. Know that everything u accomplish, u worked hard for it yes, but God also saw that and blessed u to get it!

fran
fran

you said it the best! Thank you for this light bulb moment.

Kayle
Kayle

You know, when you believe god is on your side making you super-human, you will win a lot of battles. Or die trying. Faith. Period. Is what helped the people you talk about, but a heezy of a lot more other people on their side died and never saw what they were fighting for, too. I suspect the same is for "good" single christian women. a lot of them are "dying" single spinsters waiting on god to bring them a man.
Confirmation bias, my friend, confirmation bias.

eLLe85
eLLe85

QUIT BLAMING WOMEN FOR THE FAILINGS OF MEN AND RELATIONSHIPS. IF more males would be the MEN they claim to be, we wouldn't have half of the relationship problems we currently have. Your entire premise could be switched totally around to read: No MAN should give his "goodies and benefits" as you like to call them to ANY woman UNLESS HE KNOWS FOR SURE that she is going to give her all to him. If he doesn't know if she is having sex with other men while she is with him, if he doesn't know if she is the right woman to carry his child, if he doesn't know if he would want to bring her around his family and friends, if he doesn't know if he can trust her, if he doesn't know anything about this woman other than how she looks--then why would he want to have sex with this woman?

Do you see how that works?!

Deborrah Cooper
Deborrah Cooper

Its easy for you, a MALE to find nothing wrong with what that fool was talking about, because it doesn't affect you. YOU aren't being told to hide yourself in the back of a closet and send some man on a CIA hunt for your ass like you are Osama Bin Laden! You are reading a lot more into what he said than what his words said.

Secondly, who cares what the church did in the past? WTF is it doing for Black people here and now? NOTHING. To borrow Janet Jackson's phrase "what have you done for me lately?" With $480 billion dollars passing through the hands of Black churches in the U.S. the past 20 years, what has happened with all that money? Where is it? What good has it done for anyone?

Lastly, nowhere in my article did I say the Black church was SOLELY responsible for the high rates of single Black women in this country. But it is responsible for millions of them, which is good enough for me. And I could not care less what women of other races are doing or thinking sir, because this article is about BLACK women, SINGLE BLACK WOMEN, and what happens to them and the messages they are being given in BLACK CHURCHES by BLACK MEN.

You all off on some tangent that has nothing to do with anything.

Monique English
Monique English

The Church does not bring healing. The purpose of the church was to bring the gospel into the world so people can receive salvation. The church does not not have that type of power only God does. You give to much credit to the churches. We need to worship God and God alone. If God has a husband for you it will come to pass the church cannot dictate to anyone on how their life is going to be. And you can date someone outside of the church its not a sin.

I'm a christian and beleive strongly in the bible but I don't ever want to attend a church again. I was never happy in the church and the pastors and other religious leaders would guilt trip you if you dind't attend a church. As a single black woman I'm fully content in the Lord but its because of him and not the church.

I talk to guys have phone conversations with guys of various backgrounds. The black church is very judgemental about alot of things whe it comes to dating. But one shouldn't rely on the churches especially now.

Read the bible and trust God and God alone. If and when God wants you to marry it will happen on his time not the churches or pastors. God created this world and he knows more that the churches. Be encourage and speak your truth.

Deborrah Cooper
Deborrah Cooper

The mistake you make is taking this personally and thinking someone is talking about YOU and YOUR CHURCH. You want to relate what I write to YOUR reading of YOUR Bible, and YOUR husband and YOUR situation. No one cares about YOU because you are just one person and you're married anyway, which mans that you are not the subject of this article at all. Understand that I'm writing about hundreds of thousands of Black women that are single and looking for a husband... they are NOT YOU!!

By the way, blogging has no rules and you should not have expectations that I fit into a neat little journalist box that makes you happy. If anything, I will purposely go out of my way to be obnoxious just because I can.

Secondly, re-read the article so you understand what you read. I did say that about 2% of heterosexual men fit into the normal marriage-material category in Black churches. That's about it. As you noted yourself, there are a lot of rotten apples in church and few good ones.

Lastly, you church people are all the same. They must have a Church Vocabulary Book that you all study like crazy, because you say the same tired crap every time you post a response! "Bitter" is your favorite adjective, right along with "feeling sorry" and "praying for" someone. Keep your prayers, not wanted nor needed. And learn some new words so when you come back to post again, you will have something unique and possibly exciting to say.

Zee
Zee

Preach on! The Pastor is a under cover pimp always trying to hook these men with women in the church.

I will never look for a man in a church. The congregation is filled with most corrupted folks in all.

Let the truth be told the single people hold the church together. We are the ones dedicating our time and money to the congregation on a continuous basis. Then really get nothing out of the deal but heart ache and disappointment.

I believe in God but I don't trust the institution of church and the congregation. Dealing with Folks in the church will make you run back to the World.

I've had my money stolen, married a busta which the Pastor approved, got people jobs at my place of employment and then they lie on apps and on their time cards, etc. Just a hot mess!! I don't really deal with church folks no more.

Kayle
Kayle

Good for you for leaving and admitting your mistake to your kids!!! So many are in bondage (to bridge things with a church term) to lies! Good for you for cutting yourself and your kids free.

Deborrah Cooper
Deborrah Cooper

If she goes to a White church that has a more progressive mindset, actually helps the community and its parishoners, and offers plenty of like-minded single men of whatever race for a Black woman to date, then sure. Otherwise, no. I am not convinced really that Black people need to be involved in any type of Christianity because, like I said, its a slave master religion and has nothing to do with us as a people.

You sound resentful. What are you resentful about? Clearly you understood the issues, but let me state them more clearly for you in case there is a bit of confusion. I touched on all three points: #1 finding a suitable mate to avoid fornication; #2 getting away from pulpit pimps and charlatans using religion as a cover; and #3 hipping naive God-fearing women to the games they are hit with in Black churches.

Gwen Stewart
Gwen Stewart

Thank you, Thank you. I did'nt think there were any other black women out there that thougt as I do. I agree with everything you have said and I am filled with joy to know I am not alone. The churches have women talking as if they are insane. Try talking to a black women about anything at all and the first thing out of her mouth is "girl don't worry just let God take care of of" I get no sensible conversation from the majority of black women and as you stated they are not educated enough to respond or even understand what you are even talking about, other than what they have been brainwashed to say and believe by their ministers. I have been thinking of running a list of the price of homes of these ministers in my city and showing it to the women. I do not go out as often as I used to because I am sick of seeing mostly women everywhere I go. I also remember as a child that nearly all of the African Methodist Episcopal ministers had very fair skinned wives including my own uncle. I was very skeptical even as a child. Things have gotten worse, the figures are astounding of the status of the black women who are still pretending all is well while we live our lives alone. Deborrah Cooper is wonderful!!!! and so are you. Gwen

Deborrah Cooper
Deborrah Cooper

No, its NOT all about Jesus. It's about us as people and the spiritual power that we have within us. We each have the power to manifest our dreams irrespective of religious beliefs. It is difficult for people of logic and reason to ascribe to the belief of a dead White man saving anyone when he couldn't even save himself. That concept is completely ridiculous and illogical, so those that do not believe in that theory have no interest in the boogey man theory of happily ever after.

And the second thing is if you have never done any wild crazy stupid stuff in your life, you don't NEED to be "saved". That is only people that acted a fool, cut up, did a bunch of insane things in their youth. They get older and start worrying about dying and so they run to church and get "saved" by a bunch of other useless sinners and liars that also cut up, acted a fool, and did a bunch of insane things in their youth.

LOLOL!! Yall kill me with this Jesus stuff.

Deborrah Cooper
Deborrah Cooper

That is what YOU say. I say I did it on my own and God had nothing to do with it. The weakness that Black people express when they blame everything on God - whether it is good or bad - just infuriates me. Black people have been trained to think that they have no personal power, no ability to make a difference on their own. They NEED God in everything. I just shake my head. You all have been sold a bill of goods by your slave masters and you STILL KEEP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. Running up in church three or four times every week and quoting from that collection of fairy tales you call The Bible.

Raz
Raz

Fashionique:"We can’t take the credit for our blessing because He is our maker and knows us from when were in the womb. Know that everything u accomplish, u worked hard for it yes, but God also saw that and blessed u to get it!"

Not everyone shares the belief that they can only do something in life if 'God helped them to do it'.

NewAgnostic
NewAgnostic

AMEN! This double standard and blaming EVERYTHING (all while benefitting from their time and money) on the women is why I left church years ago and just can't bring myself to go back. Ms. Cooper's article was right on! The only people complaining about this article are the people who have something to lose once Black Women wake up and stop being doormats simply because some man in a suit, yelling from some pulpit tells them that God wants them to "give, give, give" and "wait" for a return on all their efforts.

Dee Harris
Dee Harris

Ms. Cooper,

I must say I find your article quite interesting and I do agree with some of your points to some extent. I have been a church goer for a long time and I can honestly say this is quite a unique point of view. I am married and I did meet someone from outside church and everything turned out ok.
I think that some of the things that are problems with us a Black women may be unique to us because there are so few brothers that are what we who are career or educated women or of a certain status are looking to find. I think that is not just in the church. I wonder sometimes if people of other ethnic groups have the same issues with finding a mate as we do. I can remember being one of those single lonely sisters for a long time thinking I was going to find a brother at church and I attended every singles meeting and tried to "do everything right" if u know what I mean, before I finally just got sick of it. I finally just made it a point to make myself available to meet someone and I did let him know that my spiritual life was very important to me and that later became something we could enjoy together. I looked for your other article and I think I only saw a portion of it, so I am not really sure what u suggested, but I have a few suggestions. I think Black women should be open to dating brothers or non brothers who they feel are decent and they can be compatible with. Also I think there should be more balanced teaching on Dating in the church, which currently not

Big Mike
Big Mike

I enjoyed your article, but I think a major concept was left out. Most preachers are repeating what true daddies tell their daughter. Daddies want the best for their daughter, a man with a job, a man that is responsible, a man who knows how to sacrifice, etc. The major problem is not the preacher. It is the Black Men as a whole. The negative perception that society illustrates of us, we try to live up to it or even magnify it. So I would not blame the Church or even the preacher. Go to the source, which is the lack of daddies, selfishness, and plain stubborness on the part of the Black Male.

Kayle
Kayle

YOU. IS. OUTCHO. MIND.

The ratio of single black women to black men, ESPECIALLY IN THE CHURCH, blows this theory to pieces. We don't even need case studies here. H***, if you found them they'd be the exceptions that prove the rule held up as a dishonest example. Holy crud!

Ronnie J
Ronnie J

Deb,

Grow up people who are truly spiritual in good deeds will find what they are searching for and that's all to it.

If they can't find love in the church, school, work,bars or where ever 99.999 % of the time there is something wrong in the heart of the one who's searching, and remember you don't find love it just it finds you.

Deborrah Cooper
Deborrah Cooper

Sir, with all due respect, that is crazy talk. A grown ass woman has no need for a "daddy" up in the pulpit to be telling her what to do like a child! You make it sound like he is doing her a favor! I am telling you that your statement even further validates my assertion that the true goal of these alleged spiritual leaders is to do nothing more than control the thinking and behavior of millions of single Black women. Therefore the major problem is very definitely the preacher and the very principles upon which churches are established.

It is also Black men as a whole because Black men are stuck on stupid with this "submission" stuff they jam down women's throats. Black men, probably due to the fact that they generally feel powerless in society, want to have dominion over someone, so they demand that women acquiesce to them so that they can feel like men.

In your last sentence you and I are somewhat in agreement, but I would say it is more accurately written as:

"Go to the source, which is the lack of mature adult males with a sense of responsibility and honor, selfishness, and plain stubbornness which results in a refusal to grow as a person and change to become a better Black man."

This site is protected by WP-CopyRightPro