(AGREE): I love the Lord. But, I believe that the black church has systematically brainwashed black woman to “wait” on the Lord. There are 40, 50, 60 year old woman still “waiting.” Is that God…I have to say no. Is it natural to wait 30 years for companionship? No. The black church promotes “waiting” on the Lord theology because they know that woman make up 75% of the tithing congregation. This strategy is used to keep woman serving and waiting in the church. How is it possible to even meet a man when you are in the church serving 6 days a week? It’s impossible. I went to a church that frequently encouraged the woman to “wait on the Lord” and these woman were well into their 50’s and 60’s. This is not God. Let me say it again, THIS IS NOT GOD!!! The Lord desires that we live a balanced life – and not in bondage to man’s idea of church. There is so much to experience in the world but you cannot experience it holed up in the church from Sunday to Sunday. I say experience life and see God move in your life in a new way. Maybe then black woman will be open to new experiences and meeting men that they would never have considered before.
(BURY GIRL): I heard Ms. Cooper on the Tom Joyner Morning Show. I admit that I haven’t read the piece but based on her explanation, it seems she is promoting balance and that attending church ALL the time may not be the way to go for some women. Later in her interview, Ms. Cooper admitted that at age 6 she decided that church wasn’t the way she wanted to go and she hasn’t been in attendance since. So I think, as with other writers, we must take into account the writer’s personal life and views on the subjects they choose to write about. I don’t think anyone should strictly adhere to her “advice” but I do think that she has some valid points. In my opinion, our churches don’t address sexuality and relationships properly, especially when ministers and other church administrators are having affairs within the church. This is a great work to get us talking about the social lives of black Christian women and the congregation in general.
(Jim): Dear Deborrah: I came across your article on the Black church through a friend and was very impressed that you took on this mirroring role. As a 62-year old white man who grew up poor but spent 30+ years lawyering for the govt., I do not stand in a place to validate or approve or disagree. But I have spent many years doing my work on race and gender, including leading multicultural awareness trainings. So let’s say I see where you are coming from and have some sense of the attitudes and behaviors you are addressing and seeking to change and the intensity with which you will be resisted. The image in the mind is so different from the image in the mirror you are holding up for reflection. It’s ironic in a way that the institution which evolved to protect its members from the insidious attitudes and behavior of racism and transform uneducated and recently freed slaves into educated, productive members of the middle class or trades to the extent they could, has seemingly remained so sexist, and dare I add homophobic. I had a powerfully transformative experience involving primarily the essential meaning of dominance in the Patriarchy, the banishment of the Divine Feminine, and the beginning of oppression of the Other. We are so deep in delusion that no thinks to question why we don’t have God the Mother and God the Daughter up in the Pantheon with God the Father and God the Son. How could that be? Blessings, Love and Light for this sacred work of Awakening!!
(Ber): I don’t even know what to say but thank you!! There are a lot of things, mainly the undertone that I don’t agree with however your message is heard, understood, and on point. I enjoyed going to church and have grown significantly through the word of God but one day something happened. I commend the ministry on attempting to be gender neutral but what I observed clearly showed the messages which were received. The females were often quiet, without voice, constantly charged with Not enticing, Not pursuing, Not challenging the object of their affection. Drilled to be meek and the males were exactly the opposite acting out gifts of entitlement and earthy reign because they’re charged with leadership. Clear messages from the pulpit to the women….the Lord will bring you your husband so stop focusing on that mess and focus on the Lord. I began to wonder why they had to be mutually exclusive? I wasn’t trying to sleep with Jesus, but you’re taught you’re like the church (Jesus’ bride). For those without independent thought this alone can be quite damaging. The overall message is to wait on the Lord…find joy in him…seek not earthly pleasures. If you’re focused on a man you can’t be focused on God. I began to feel restricted, chained, controlled and left to rediscover myself. I’m so thankful to be delivered from all the static, noise coming from those who are afraid of me living the gift that life truly is. Noise from people who deep down inside may hold some resentment towards women or worse be stuck in the teachings prior to the women’s right movement (ha-ha). Just noise. I’m going after what I want with the Lord’s blessing.
(Leo): We believe in a personal Savior who cares about the details of our life. And, when we hear from a pastor or leader, we listen because we believe them to be set apart for the work of ministering to God’s people. The Holy Ghost, whose presence inspires a shout, is our Master Teacher. The point is simply this–use every available medium, format, or venue possible to get to know God and understand what God wants for you. This article probably wont enlighten some, but take it to God in prayer. Is it scripture? No. But does it contain some interesting things about us as religious people? Yes! Keep thinking people of God. Don’t let every new idea trouble your faith, but don’t be afraid to hear new ideas. I’m still listening.
(Flower Child): The black church is mental slavery at best. Its nothing but a business. When black folk finally figure out that we don’t need a “leader” to help us get to the promised land and that GOD already exists within in you then we will be able to move forward. Everything in that article is absolutely true. The only reason why people are offended is because the truth hurts. Its a shame we as black people are trained to blindly go along with whatever goes on in the black church right or wrong. BLACK PEOPLE LISTEN UP!!!!!!!!! GOD IS ALREADY IN YOU. YOU DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO ANYBODY ELSE FOR THE WORD BUT YOU. THE PASTOR OF THE CHURCH DOES NOT KNOW MORE THAN YOU, NOR IS HE CLOSER TO GOD THAN YOU. BLACK FOLK GET A CLUE AND STOP BEING IGNORANT. DAMN!!!!!!!
(Rev. T.): When I saw on the TV that the topic for the show airing on tonight would be regarding the church and how it may or may not be responsible for keeping black women single, at the risk of being labeled angry and in pain, I immediately looked for your web site to respond-though the show may be a taped recording. For some time now I have wondered why it is that our churches have grown exponentially but the quality of our lives in the black community has not. By looking at the message and the messenger I have concluded that not only do we as black women got to change our approach to dating but we must seek out other spiritual messages. By this I mean that the spiritual message largely from our male spiritual leaders is our dated psychologically–we interpret differently today then we did yesterday. The prosperity message also has twisted the male members expectations, because it tells you that what you have is not good enough. This message is transferred to human relationships-why is it that large black churches with high numbers of male and female members also have a high single ministry? Good going on the topic on tonight-I hope we listen I know that we will not because if more black families were created and happy how much would members depend on the preachers to keep them happy?
(QB): WOW!!! I like the article . BLACK PEOPLE PLEASE RESEARCH THE ORIGIN OF RELIGION!!! PLEASE PLEASE STOP WITH ALL THE IGNORANCE!!!!! SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!! STOP PLAYING YOURSELF!!!!!
(MEEBO Anonymous): the only married couple in the church is the preacher and his wife…and u know the preacher fukking all the desperate single women…smh
(Supreme Eye): You cannot expect a real man to sit up and listen to some dude trying to tell him how to live or run his house. Many church going black women will do and follow what ever the preacher says without question. Yet the very man who puts a roof over her head, she will question and go against. How in the hell do you follow some dude who is pimping you out of your money and brainwashing your ass, but you will give your husband problems? If I was a single man I would be that opportunistic player in church, because I know it would be easy pussy and I would sell game to these women just like Mr. Pimp at the pulpit and drop every inch of this dick in you.
(Pontiac CTO): When you wrote “There is a huge world out here full of men of many different religious and spiritual beliefs, races, cultures and ages. Traditional thinking about women, men and gender roles which place Black women in a small box is passé – this is 2010! Break free of the chains of mental control promoted by the Black church and look around! Broaden your horizons and explore other options for romance.” I think this was the real point. this is the solution that is being offered. not whether it is “truth” or “lies” or whether she is bitter and evil, or whether she is married or single. it is disappointing but not unexpected that some would get caught up on everything BUT the actual message. Explore options period, not just for romance. Option means YOU get to decide if this something you can get with. if in your exploration “outside the box” leads you to something you are simply not with, then you have the OPTION to say I’m not with that and move on. but you will never know what your options are if you are unwilling or unable to remove the blinders from your eyes and deviate from the course that has been dictated to you. I thought the article was 100% right on by the way. Maybe a little too subjective and borderline offensive, but yeah – I dug it anyway.
(MzA): I kind of agree with Pontiac for the most part. I think the point of the article was simply this: Black women are hands down the most religious beings in this country. If you go to any black church on any Sunday, there are relatively few single black, straight, datable men within its walls. This is just true. It’s not me being bitter, it’s not me giving a reason as to why this is true, it just is what it is. I believe the point of the article was to tell black women that you’re likely to never meet your man in a black church and to just keep your options fully open beyond what you’re taught by family and traditional religious institutions within the black community. Was she offensive to the very group she’s trying to “enlighten”? Yep. But, I kind of think that was the point. The shock value of it all. To be as blunt about reality as possible, even to the point of slight embellishment.
(Shree) Though I both agree and disagree with the content of the article, I certainly think it is interesting and worth discussion. This is a conversation that’s long overdue. I don’t think this article has the answers to the issues facing Black (Christian) women, but also don’t think any one person has the answers. Maybe answers will come as we engage in good healthy/wholesome dialogue.
Deborrah
Veteran social researcher, relationship advice columnist, author and radio host. Author of hundreds of articles on American and black culture, gender issues, singles, dating and relationships. Author of "Sucka Free Love!" , "The 24 Types of Suckas to Avoid," "The Black Church - Where Women Pray and Men Pray," and "Why Vegan is the New Black" all available on Amazon.Com. Her unique voice and insightful commentary have delighted fans and riled haters for 20 years. Read her stuff on SurvivingDating.Com and AskHeartBeat.Com.
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Category: The Black Church
Ms. Cooper, you are right on target. In fact, I just printed out your article to include in folders for my focus group on Sunday. I am writing an anthology and will reach out to you to include your article in the book. I abandoned the black church a few years ago. It’s so much BS that goes on in these churches, and frankly, I wasn’t doing anything but falling asleep. I have been hearing the same ole tired messages since I was a little girl. Nothing changes. Every man that ever broke my heart was in the church. So I no longer have the requirement that he has to be in a church. Hell, most of the good guys I know ARE NOT in the church. I have broadened my horizons! You go girl! And keep those articles coming!
Ms. Cooper,
Sorry, but do not pat yourself on the back too much. I read the original article and I watched the clip of the minister.
What could be soooo wrong with what he said??
He’s simply encouraging women to not “be soooo easy”! That’s it. No WOMAN should give her precious gifts (her “goodies & benefits” as I like to call them) to any man UNLESS SHE KNOWS FOR SURE that that man is going to give his all to her. Yes, his very life. What could be wrong with that?? If the modern day woman could see that, many of the present-day relationship problems would diminish.
It seems as though now in these, the early days of the 21st century, some blacks want to graduate from the one institution that’s helped us the most–the Church, supposedly in the name of progress. How disrespectful that is to our history!
Take a walk down the memory lane of African American history. What did Phillis Wheatley, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Fredrick Douglass, Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Carter G. Woodson, Martin Luther King (plus many more) have in common?
A deep abiding faith in Christ that gave them true courage to stand up against evil, injustice, and the like. Now, although the American church in general has a lot of deep problems, it is not solely responsible for the current state of male/female relationships in this culture. Women of other ethnicities are singing the same tune of the struggles to find a good man–but they ain’t blaming the Church for it.
Its easy for you, a MALE to find nothing wrong with what that fool was talking about, because it doesn’t affect you. YOU aren’t being told to hide yourself in the back of a closet and send some man on a CIA hunt for your ass like you are Osama Bin Laden! You are reading a lot more into what he said than what his words said.
Secondly, who cares what the church did in the past? WTF is it doing for Black people here and now? NOTHING. To borrow Janet Jackson’s phrase “what have you done for me lately?” With $480 billion dollars passing through the hands of Black churches in the U.S. the past 20 years, what has happened with all that money? Where is it? What good has it done for anyone?
Lastly, nowhere in my article did I say the Black church was SOLELY responsible for the high rates of single Black women in this country. But it is responsible for millions of them, which is good enough for me. And I could not care less what women of other races are doing or thinking sir, because this article is about BLACK women, SINGLE BLACK WOMEN, and what happens to them and the messages they are being given in BLACK CHURCHES by BLACK MEN.
You all off on some tangent that has nothing to do with anything.
QUIT BLAMING WOMEN FOR THE FAILINGS OF MEN AND RELATIONSHIPS. IF more males would be the MEN they claim to be, we wouldn’t have half of the relationship problems we currently have. Your entire premise could be switched totally around to read: No MAN should give his “goodies and benefits” as you like to call them to ANY woman UNLESS HE KNOWS FOR SURE that she is going to give her all to him. If he doesn’t know if she is having sex with other men while she is with him, if he doesn’t know if she is the right woman to carry his child, if he doesn’t know if he would want to bring her around his family and friends, if he doesn’t know if he can trust her, if he doesn’t know anything about this woman other than how she looks–then why would he want to have sex with this woman?
Do you see how that works?!
AMEN! This double standard and blaming EVERYTHING (all while benefitting from their time and money) on the women is why I left church years ago and just can’t bring myself to go back. Ms. Cooper’s article was right on! The only people complaining about this article are the people who have something to lose once Black Women wake up and stop being doormats simply because some man in a suit, yelling from some pulpit tells them that God wants them to “give, give, give” and “wait” for a return on all their efforts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
You know, when you believe god is on your side making you super-human, you will win a lot of battles. Or die trying. Faith. Period. Is what helped the people you talk about, but a heezy of a lot more other people on their side died and never saw what they were fighting for, too. I suspect the same is for “good” single christian women. a lot of them are “dying” single spinsters waiting on god to bring them a man.
Confirmation bias, my friend, confirmation bias.
I agree with the video and the article (if I can actually do that!). From the video, I felt that he was trying to tell women not to be so easy. What I have learned in life is that men like the chase. So when women become so presistent about getting a man it really turns the men off. I know the speaker in the video was coming from a spiritual point of view but all he was saying is take your time, wait, and not be so fast at trying to get a man on your own-Let the man chase you.
On the other hand, I do agree with the article because all of the “Church Stuff” that women involve themselves in prevents them from having the time and availability to meet single men who may be interested in them. As a single black woman myself, actively involved in the church I attend…waiting for that special someone can get a little old, especially when all the churches I have attended the men are old, already married, or seem a little on the feminine side! I do feel that Pastors take advantage of single women (or any woman for that matter) because we get so caught up in things and do not know how to get out. We become so committed in everything we do with our emotional selves! It seems that Pastors take advantage of those emotions, use them against us in their sermons, and even holds us in a sense of bondage (because we become to emotional to leave).Resulting in other issues: home, family, friends being neglected (even neglecting ourselves).
Deborah–First of all I want to thank you for your article. As an African-American women who has been church-ed all my life and lead to believe to wait on Mr. Right to show up in church, I appreciate the candor with which you have written your article. I myself have begun to feel frustrated by church doctrine that I feel is limiting, especially to women of color. My most recent blog post addresses the church, women of color, romance, and relationships. Please check it out at smelodyiva.wordpress.com. I would love to get your feedback and ideas. I look forward to hearing from you.–Afua
Oh my God (no pun intended). I am feeling this!!
I listened to Michael Baisden yesterday…I enjoyed the show…Looked you up on the internet…I used to be religious, but now I only go to church when I feel the need. I know a lot of women who feel that men who go to church are better than other men…No matter how hard I try to tell them that a man is a man. Just because he goes to church doesn’t mean anything. I have met good men at the bar, at the gym…It doesn’t matter…Thank you for the article…Lots of people won’t agree, but then again, lots of people will.
I read this article with great sadness in my heart. Some of what Ms. Cooper says is true but to be a journalist, there surely isn’t a lot of objectivity in the article. Ms. Cooper, you said you visited lots of churches across the country. Great, all you could come up with is that weird, weak, opportunistic, slimy or recovering men go to church every week. What a shame your mind couldn’t be more open. I have attended church regulary for the last 25 years and have seen some of everything inclluding lonely, single women and happily married ones. I met my husband at a Bible Study and he is no loser. To substantiate your point, we did find that the Bible Study turned out to be a bad situation with the controlling elements you spoke of, so we left. We found another church that did effectively teach the Bible and demanded that we read it for ourselves and not just take the word of the one up front. Good thing, but I already knew to do that. There were some nice men in that church, strong, independent thinkers and some losers. It takes all kinds…besides, a good church is a hospital for those who need healing. And then those people get stronger and become productive memnbers of society. You sound as though you have some secret axe to grind and you’re trying to camouflage it with lopsided facts, statss and bitter sounding rhetoric. I feel sadness for anyone who absolutely agrees with your views and anyone too mad to see some validity, too. Nevertheless, I pray for you.
The mistake you make is taking this personally and thinking someone is talking about YOU and YOUR CHURCH. You want to relate what I write to YOUR reading of YOUR Bible, and YOUR husband and YOUR situation. No one cares about YOU because you are just one person and you’re married anyway, which mans that you are not the subject of this article at all. Understand that I’m writing about hundreds of thousands of Black women that are single and looking for a husband… they are NOT YOU!!
By the way, blogging has no rules and you should not have expectations that I fit into a neat little journalist box that makes you happy. If anything, I will purposely go out of my way to be obnoxious just because I can.
Secondly, re-read the article so you understand what you read. I did say that about 2% of heterosexual men fit into the normal marriage-material category in Black churches. That’s about it. As you noted yourself, there are a lot of rotten apples in church and few good ones.
Lastly, you church people are all the same. They must have a Church Vocabulary Book that you all study like crazy, because you say the same tired crap every time you post a response! “Bitter” is your favorite adjective, right along with “feeling sorry” and “praying for” someone. Keep your prayers, not wanted nor needed. And learn some new words so when you come back to post again, you will have something unique and possibly exciting to say.
I enjoyed your article, but I think a major concept was left out. Most preachers are repeating what true daddies tell their daughter. Daddies want the best for their daughter, a man with a job, a man that is responsible, a man who knows how to sacrifice, etc. The major problem is not the preacher. It is the Black Men as a whole. The negative perception that society illustrates of us, we try to live up to it or even magnify it. So I would not blame the Church or even the preacher. Go to the source, which is the lack of daddies, selfishness, and plain stubborness on the part of the Black Male.
Sir, with all due respect, that is crazy talk. A grown ass woman has no need for a “daddy” up in the pulpit to be telling her what to do like a child! You make it sound like he is doing her a favor! I am telling you that your statement even further validates my assertion that the true goal of these alleged spiritual leaders is to do nothing more than control the thinking and behavior of millions of single Black women. Therefore the major problem is very definitely the preacher and the very principles upon which churches are established.
It is also Black men as a whole because Black men are stuck on stupid with this “submission” stuff they jam down women’s throats. Black men, probably due to the fact that they generally feel powerless in society, want to have dominion over someone, so they demand that women acquiesce to them so that they can feel like men.
In your last sentence you and I are somewhat in agreement, but I would say it is more accurately written as:
“Go to the source, which is the lack of mature adult males with a sense of responsibility and honor, selfishness, and plain stubbornness which results in a refusal to grow as a person and change to become a better Black man.”
Deb,
Grow up people who are truly spiritual in good deeds will find what they are searching for and that’s all to it.
If they can’t find love in the church, school, work,bars or where ever 99.999 % of the time there is something wrong in the heart of the one who’s searching, and remember you don’t find love it just it finds you.
That is a bunch of rhetoric that means nothing.
YOU. IS. OUTCHO. MIND.
The ratio of single black women to black men, ESPECIALLY IN THE CHURCH, blows this theory to pieces. We don’t even need case studies here. H***, if you found them they’d be the exceptions that prove the rule held up as a dishonest example. Holy crud!
Ms. Cooper,
I must say I find your article quite interesting and I do agree with some of your points to some extent. I have been a church goer for a long time and I can honestly say this is quite a unique point of view. I am married and I did meet someone from outside church and everything turned out ok.
I think that some of the things that are problems with us a Black women may be unique to us because there are so few brothers that are what we who are career or educated women or of a certain status are looking to find. I think that is not just in the church. I wonder sometimes if people of other ethnic groups have the same issues with finding a mate as we do. I can remember being one of those single lonely sisters for a long time thinking I was going to find a brother at church and I attended every singles meeting and tried to “do everything right” if u know what I mean, before I finally just got sick of it. I finally just made it a point to make myself available to meet someone and I did let him know that my spiritual life was very important to me and that later became something we could enjoy together. I looked for your other article and I think I only saw a portion of it, so I am not really sure what u suggested, but I have a few suggestions. I think Black women should be open to dating brothers or non brothers who they feel are decent and they can be compatible with. Also I think there should be more balanced teaching on Dating in the church, which currently not
The Church does not bring healing. The purpose of the church was to bring the gospel into the world so people can receive salvation. The church does not not have that type of power only God does. You give to much credit to the churches. We need to worship God and God alone. If God has a husband for you it will come to pass the church cannot dictate to anyone on how their life is going to be. And you can date someone outside of the church its not a sin.
I’m a christian and beleive strongly in the bible but I don’t ever want to attend a church again. I was never happy in the church and the pastors and other religious leaders would guilt trip you if you dind’t attend a church. As a single black woman I’m fully content in the Lord but its because of him and not the church.
I talk to guys have phone conversations with guys of various backgrounds. The black church is very judgemental about alot of things whe it comes to dating. But one shouldn’t rely on the churches especially now.
Read the bible and trust God and God alone. If and when God wants you to marry it will happen on his time not the churches or pastors. God created this world and he knows more that the churches. Be encourage and speak your truth.
THANK YOU for writing the TRUTH!!! I don’t care WHO speaks negatively against what you said, I have LIVED it! I married one of those “Bible-toting-church-abiding-dysfunctional men” in order to not sin and commit fornication. I literally quickly married someone I knew nothing about and remained married for many miserable years to prove that “Christian” marriages work.Our foolishness was perpetuated by a belief system imposed in our church that as long as we both were ‘saved’ things would work out.
I see young ladies making this same mistake over and over; marrying to please the judgments of church people…some of them who wish THEY were FREE (single) too!Church does not replace or cover up what we personally lack in social skills, family disconnectedness,educational sufficiency or financial unpreparedness. But it DOES in some circles create a false hope that these deficits can be overlooked with ‘faith.’ Hmmmmm…not so!
When my children became older and began questioning my beliefs that they saw made little or no sense, I began to become TRUTHFUL with MYSELF and THEM. We DISCUSS what we hear in church and I hear them out. I do NOT want them to be blind followers of cultural burdens and spiritual misinformation that creates confusion, unnecessary life stalling or unhappiness.
Again, THANK YOU!!!!!
Preach on! The Pastor is a under cover pimp always trying to hook these men with women in the church.
I will never look for a man in a church. The congregation is filled with most corrupted folks in all.
Let the truth be told the single people hold the church together. We are the ones dedicating our time and money to the congregation on a continuous basis. Then really get nothing out of the deal but heart ache and disappointment.
I believe in God but I don’t trust the institution of church and the congregation. Dealing with Folks in the church will make you run back to the World.
I’ve had my money stolen, married a busta which the Pastor approved, got people jobs at my place of employment and then they lie on apps and on their time cards, etc. Just a hot mess!! I don’t really deal with church folks no more.
Words aren’t enough to express my thankfulness to Ms. Cooper on writing these articles regarding Black Women remaining single while being ‘faithful’ to their Black churches. Since I divorced my “Bible toting church abiding minister man” while my children were still young, I was a divorced single mom for most of their upbringing.
Problems became evident when my children were older and would challenge me on my beliefs that they saw little to no evidence as making any sense. Why was their beautiful, intelligent mother not the ‘catch’ of some other ‘saved’ man? And if mom and dad were ‘saved’ why were they divorced?
Your article hit it right on the head. I married one of those dysfunctional church going type men in an attempt to be obedient to scriptures and not commit fornication. I married someone I barely knew, stuck it out for 13 miserable years (I’d had his children and wanted to prove that a Christian marriage works) then left and I must say I have been MUCH happier since leaving that relationship.
I see this behavior repeated over and over by young Christian women who get married to appease the other churchgoers, not knowing that some of these people wish THEY were FREE, (unmarried) too! Our ministers don’t want to know us; they want our attendance so THEY can look GOOD and WE can give them our MONEY!!! They could care less about the conditions of our families as we repeat relationship errors from outdated mandates that do not work!!!!!
Good for you for leaving and admitting your mistake to your kids!!! So many are in bondage (to bridge things with a church term) to lies! Good for you for cutting yourself and your kids free.
So what if the ‘black’ woman started attending the ‘white’ church, would that suffice…since it seems like the ‘black’ church is the problem? Any findings on that scenario?…or what if the black church has a female pastor, will the black woman come out right? Is the issue finding a man or fixing the church…or educating the black, GROWN woman who has no excuse to be ignorant?
If she goes to a White church that has a more progressive mindset, actually helps the community and its parishoners, and offers plenty of like-minded single men of whatever race for a Black woman to date, then sure. Otherwise, no. I am not convinced really that Black people need to be involved in any type of Christianity because, like I said, its a slave master religion and has nothing to do with us as a people.
You sound resentful. What are you resentful about? Clearly you understood the issues, but let me state them more clearly for you in case there is a bit of confusion. I touched on all three points: #1 finding a suitable mate to avoid fornication; #2 getting away from pulpit pimps and charlatans using religion as a cover; and #3 hipping naive God-fearing women to the games they are hit with in Black churches.
I do consider myself a Christian, yet I was always taught that this meant living in a Christ-like way. Christ was all about helping those who most need it, uplifting the “outcasts” in society and equality between men and women.
Historically it was not until the 3rd and 4th centuries that we see rigid gender roles emerge. This is around the same time the Christian religion began to exhibit largely Hellenistic values and values that reflected early Roman culture. This occurred when Constantine adopted Christian as the state religion of the Roman Empire, yet cultural values still influenced people’s ideas and behavior.
When one considers the fact that “religions” have always been tailored to further one’s own agenda; it makes seen why the bible proclaims that women be in a inferior position. If the bible supports patriarchy under God, then of course women will not question their position in society.
Yet, people must remember that the bible has been re-interpreted and translated. Even today if one were to pick up two different version of the bible one could interpret in two completely different ways depending on how it is written.
Now some of these preaching negroes are talking about shooting you if you don’t pay your tithes WTF is wrong with the black church today!
“Pay Tithes or get SHOT!”–Creflo Dollar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM3BWAmlXis&feature=youtu.be
Great article and I got the memo years ago on this one. There are four things that get most black women all riled up and angry: religion, hair, Dark skin Vs Light skin and interracial dating.
I said this a while back about the black church and never really waited around to read the comments nor care about what was said, but the black church could have falling a long time ago if it wasn’t for the black woman. They don’t question their roles in one of the worlds biggest social organizations because that’s all it is today, a community club. There’s not much that they do in any communities but fill their own pockets and live lavish lifestyles while most of their congregations live in poverty.
They don’t serve a purpose, they come to only fleece their flocks. I can no longer support any type of religious organization that attempts to brain wash me with lies. The same religious doctrine that was used to hold African slaves in bondage is the same one used to control and oppress their progeny. If Christianity is suppose to be about love, in my 50 years on this earth I have never seen any of it to come from those who claim to be one. All I’ve ever seen is hatred and judgment against anyone who doesn’t believe in what has been taught to them or thinks differently.
How are black women going to say they love Jesus, who is often depicted as a white man, when they claim to not be interested in dating men from different ethnic backgrounds? That’s the problem, so many of them are dating Jesus in the meantime and when the right one comes along Jesus will be abandoned.
Many pastors don’t live in the neighborhoods that their churches are located in. How you going to serve the people when you don’t live among them? I believe in a higher power, but I don’t believe in mans version of who and what a God is and quite frankly never have. How is anyone going to judge another human being when they ain’t right within???
Deborrah, the truth hurts and I’ve realized that the majority of black people to include black women cannot handle or tolerate the truth when it’s staring them dead in the face. Keep speaking your truth and all of these so called relationship experts on websites are doing nothing but pimping these women also in hopes of selling their forthcoming books. They claim feminism in one breath and on the next they feel that they’re nothing without a man to share their lives with, no wonder why the majority of them are confused.
Religion places women in second and third class citizenship, one in which many are gladly to be a part due to their religious indoctrination on the roles they should play in a patriarchal society. That’s why women are so easily influenced to spend their hard earned money due to low self-esteems because they are indoctrinated with the belief that it’s all about the superficial and never the heart of an individual.
The majority of women don’t know their worth and never will just as long as it’s measured by having youthful looks, money, and a husband. Thank you Miss Cooper!
Thank you, Thank you. I did’nt think there were any other black women out there that thougt as I do. I agree with everything you have said and I am filled with joy to know I am not alone. The churches have women talking as if they are insane. Try talking to a black women about anything at all and the first thing out of her mouth is “girl don’t worry just let God take care of of” I get no sensible conversation from the majority of black women and as you stated they are not educated enough to respond or even understand what you are even talking about, other than what they have been brainwashed to say and believe by their ministers. I have been thinking of running a list of the price of homes of these ministers in my city and showing it to the women. I do not go out as often as I used to because I am sick of seeing mostly women everywhere I go. I also remember as a child that nearly all of the African Methodist Episcopal ministers had very fair skinned wives including my own uncle. I was very skeptical even as a child. Things have gotten worse, the figures are astounding of the status of the black women who are still pretending all is well while we live our lives alone. Deborrah Cooper is wonderful!!!! and so are you. Gwen
To say feminism is a religion is not only hilarious, but wrong. As a matter of fact, a Den Hollander tried to say that Columbia University was violating his First Amendment rights because he claim “feminism is a religion.”
“Feminism is no more a religion than physics” said the judge.
I for one enjoyed your article. I do understand your article is directed toward Black Women, but as a Latina Woman it spoke to me as well. What many women as a whole fail to acknowledge that religion and the church (being an extension of religion) demands the subjugation of women. Period.
Never mind the rigid gender roles it promotes and in doing so places men above women. Relegating our status as second class. The sad part is how many women WANT to submit and obey because they are under the illusion that by doing so they will find a “good man”. I still dont even know how many can even define what a “good man” is?
Lucky for me that I broke from the mental chains of bondage that I call religion. I am an Atheist who have been married to an African American Man for 15 years. Needless to say, I did not meet him at church. He is a wonderful husband and father to our children.We have a happy marriage based on trust and MUTUAL respect. He does not see himself as above me EVER! and he is so secure in himself that he does need for me to coddle, baby, bow, stroke his ego to make him feel “man”.
People of Color like us do exist….. people who dont need a priest, pastor, antiquated books or the church to tell us how to be good, moral, happy, loving of our fellow man, respectful of others and more important who and how to love.
I wanted to read Cooper’s original article, and I found many things interesting. First, Cooper’s main premise is that the black church reinforces victimhood for the black woman (especially in the area of dating). She even gives a detailed history of how the church has abused its authority by “subtly brainwash[ing]” many sheep. The Bible even supports Cooper’s assessment concerning the deceit which has unfortunately taken hold of our churches. I’m speaking of the references concerning “wolves in sheep’s clothing,” and “sneaking into the church unaware” (deceitful behavior and teaching). I find it ironic that Cooper is so detailed with her findings on the abuse of the church, and yet she herself is on the plantation of the ideology of feminism. Is Ms. Cooper aware that her religion (feminism) originally rejected the voice of the black woman in favor of white, affluent women? This is the ideology (one that favors white women) that she is using to measure the progress of black women with. It is further ironic that while Cooper calls for empowerment, she reinforces victimhood through name calling, and by simply blaming the preacher for the ignorance of women. Ladies and gentlemen, the Bible says, you must study so that you can know my (God’s) voice. The sheep cannot know the shepherd’s voice if they do not study what the shepherd’s instructions. In addition, Cooper is subtly suggesting that black women lower their standards in order to find Mr. Right. Ms. Cooper make up your mind, am I suppose to liberate myself or adjust my life and my beliefs in order to attract Mr. Right.
Next, Ms. Cooper, you deceptively placed the information from the Pew research Center to YOUR general comment, “An examination of any congregation of the average Black church shows that single Black females fill the pews,” in order to give this ridiculous statement credibility. In fact, I searched those statistics, top to bottom. I even did a search for the word, single. It did not occur once. The only time marriage was mentioned was in reference to the black community’s rejection of gay marriage. You Ms. Cooper are the one looking for sheep.
Then, you openly make rash generalizations about the men who attend church in order to fulfill your man hating agenda. Wow. Ms. Cooper, what price will black women pay if they wear your suggested crown of fool’s gold?
You are a female caught up in the Black man’s rhetoric of what a “feminist” is and are totally clueless. The definition of “feminism” is this: “1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes; 2 : organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests.”
Now how could women banning together and fighting for equality in wages with men for the same work, political influence and access, and not to be treated as second class citizens in our society be a problem for so many Black women like you? I know – because you have been led by sheep into the land of “female submission” by your pastors and ministers, and you don’t see where that is placing you in position where you kiss men’s asses and interact with males in a codependent, self-sacrificing fashion.
In this country about 20% of the population is functionally illiterate; for some subsets of our population, that rises to 40%. The National Adult Literacy Survey (1992) reports that “Nearly 50% of the Americans surveyed cannot read well enough to find a single piece of information in a short publication, nor can they make low level inferences based on what they read.” What does this mean? It means that most of the people going to these Black churches on a mediocre public school education, possess reading skills that are not on a level where they can read and properly interpret the allegorical writings contained in the Bible. That is why ministers and pastors interpret the scriptures for their flock. As for you, YOU do whatever you please. You are a grown ass woman.
You really spent a lot of time trying to prove me wrong. But in reality, there is nothing deceptive about the article at all. I put in quotes what came from them; everything else came from me. And if you go and examine (like I did) the population of any Black church, you will see with your own two eyes the MARRIED men and the few single men that are not one of the four types I set out in the article. You will also see the thousands of single Black women in Black churches in your area. Sadly, you have some of the same reading comprehension problems that I mentioned above.
lol! You are funny! Women need to get their asses out of churches and find some REAL men to date and marry. Continue to, as I said numerous times, use good common sense when looking. But thinking that a man you meet in church is automatically better than a man you meet anywhere else, or that a man in church is always going to be Mr. Perfect is stupid.
And should you decide to marry one of those crippled Church House Lotharios just because he goes to church, you will definitely be wearing a crown of fool’s gold! You’ll then become the man-hater your holy roller behind accuses me of being.
Go on Ms. Cooper, with your bad self !!!! You hit the nail on the head in so many areas and it really hurt – ouch . I have seen the black church mess up a lot of women’s minds, educated ones too. I commend you for teaching and informing us, forget about those ignorant haters !!!
I totally agree! If we (women) don’t have a personal relationship with God ourselves people will really lead us astray. I am active and committed to the church I currently attend. But since I have been there for about four years I have never been so confused in my life!!! Do this, do that, you are not doing that right, and so on. Pastors using scripture to beat people up, pastors getting mad and then use the pulpit to tell how they feel about what they were mad about. It’s a mess!!! It’s like they are using the pulpit for their own personal endeavors. Especially when I go home wondering, “God is that you or just the pastor?” Needless to say, I may be turning in my resignation…
Quile ” But since I have been there for about four years I have never been so confused in my life!!! Do this, do that, you are not doing that right, and so on. Pastors using scripture to beat people up, pastors getting mad and then use the pulpit to tell how they feel about what they were mad about. It’s a mess!!! It’s like they are using the pulpit for their own personal endeavors. Especially when I go home wondering, “God is that you or just the pastor?” Needless to say, I may be turning in my resignation…”
This is why I handed in my resignation a long time ago. Churches are full of religion and corruption. Spirituality is nowhere to be found behind many church doors. They have left ‘God’ out. God is a spirit everywhere thank goodness and not relegated behind a church’s door. I choose to seek God out in other places. I am not interested in listening to the ‘game’ pastor’s run’ and I don’t need a ‘pastor’ in order to have a spiritual relationship with God.
I agree with Zionfulfilled. Feminism was created by affluent white women who wished to compete with their white counterparts in the workforce. Regardless of what the current rhetoric may state they are no more pro Black women than Margaret Sanger’s Planned Parenthood.
Though I do not agree with the radio show guest statements, I will say I knew plenty of women who enjoyed carrying for their homes and families …cooking, cleaning etc. Many of these women also worked outside of their homes and had successful businesses without the college education.
It is up to the individual to study the scriptures, pray, ask for wisdom and a discerning spirit when it comes to looking for a church.
The current state of marriages in our communities is because we have left the teachings of Jesus who was pro-family, pro-woman, and pro-marriage. Close your legs, bring something to the marriage table, and you won’t have to worry about the games being played by men. Stop Blaming men and examine yourselves. Women have always had the power, we’ve just forgotten who we are!
Yawn. Why Black women believe they must be less in order to elevate Black men and trick them into believing they are more (without doing anything to deserve it), is beyond my understanding. Jesus is nothing but slavemaster trickeration and b.s. Again, why Black women in 2011 hold onto any remnant of slavery and even want to argue with other Black folks in favor of the slavemaster’s brainwashing shows how lost the majority of Black women are.
It would actually be quite depressing if I allowed myself to care that much.